Does anyone feel that culling invasive lionfish is a bad thing?

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The Kakapo (Rats), the birds of Guam (Brown Tree Snakes), and local American lake species (Zebra Mussels) would like to disagree with you about the balance that invasive species bring (i.e. the balance that involves their imminent extinction).

Ocean species are more cosmopolitan though...

A balance will be found. It may not be a good balance for the birds, rats, or American lake species (mammals in the Everglades, small reef fish, etc.), but the Earth has a vast ability to heal itself, and I am forever amazed at how nature manages to mitigate what man has wrought.

It seems that the only thing nature has a hard time compensating for is us.
 
I'm with OP and especially Chug. I've seen good recovery in areas that have lionfish culls on a regular basis, along with tournaments. I've never agreed with fish feeding and just because the fish were lionfish hasn't changed my mind to that.

OP talk to the powers that be at Turks and Caicos. It's not allowed and they believe nature will correct the situation. I didn't see that many lionfish there. No idea why there wouldn't be more. Shrugs
 
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In the history of the world things change.

Lion fish in the Carib are seen as invasive now. At some point in the future they will be seen as indigenous. How did they become indigenous in the areas where they are now? Hint: because they found a habitat that suited them.

As for culling. I have no problem with that. It's delaying the inevitable but if it makes people feel good then who am I to complain? I hear that lion fish are tasty.

R..
 
When was that prohibited? The two dive ops with whom I dove continue to do so openly.

Rules and laws exist, whether people follow them or not is another issue.

I'm guessing the comments about Caucasians and horses etc came at the end of a weekend when people were chilling out in front of their pc with little beverage in their hand so will skirt over those.

In terms of the effect that culling has, well to use the island I live on as an example, of the north, east, south and west of the island, the west is dived the most throughout the year as it is in the leeward side of the island. When you dive the west coast of Grand Cayman, down to 100 feet or so, you will see very few lionfish if any. Go north, east or west and you will see a ton. the volume of divers and therefore cullers has a visible effect on the population of lionfish allbeit in that localised area. Granted, that area accounts for a tiny percentage of the body of water that the invasive species inhabit but still, culling there has made a difference. The sentiment among many cullers is that yes, hopefully nature will figure it out but in the mean time lets try to help reduce the impact as much as possible so that when they do find their little place in the food chain there are still other species around them.

Again, thanks for all the responses (even the ones that were written while drunk). Still no one who objects to spearing lionfish.
 
When I did a few dives in East end of Cayman last spring the DM carried a pole spear and took out a few lionfish. The dead fish was then placed under a ledge, etc. rather than fed directly to a crab/fish. Idea was that the taking of lionfish would not be associated with divers since it would be found later while doing normal fish behavior.
 
Fortunately (or not as the case may be) we don't have to guess as to whether or not culling works, we know for a fact that it does. Now, to what degree it helps, and also to what degree we are helping nature find a "balance" maybe we have a little less data on.

I've been involved in the whole lionfish thing pretty much since it started here on Curacao. I've been to lots of seminars, and had more than a few beers with more than a few marine biologists (well except for Fadilah Ali who prefers ice cream to a cold beer). Those little suckers have been around long enough now that we have actually been able to compile bio mass data over the course of years.

We know that culling will not "solve" the problem. IE there will always be lionfish around. They are to prolific and can survive way too deep and for that matter way too long without food. What we do know about culling is that in areas where it is done on a regular basis the bio mass of lionfish is down. This has been studied for sure on Bonaire and Curacao, and I imagine other places as well. We also know that the areas where culling is taking place, the shallow water reef systems, is an area of massive importance in terms of the percentage of life it sustains as well as its importance as a recruitment and hatchery area (photic or euphotic zones and all that). So keeping the LF problem in check in areas where most divers can dive is actually a pretty substantive impact.

Now as to nature finding a "balance" one of the things we have to remember is that we are part of nature. Mankind and its hunting tendencies can indeed have an impact, and a profound one at that. We frankly are awesomesauce at killing sh$% when we want. We also happen to know from scientific studies what happens in areas that aren't culled (70-90% of all biomass eliminated by lionfish in less than a year). So sure nature can find a balance without culling, it will look like a barren wasteland underwater, but it will indeed balance out.

As for natural predators, everything I have read and heard suggests that this will take centuries at least. Sure there is anecdotal, and even video evidence of it, but it is very rare. On the other hand thousands of fish are caught and disected every day, and we aren't pulling up groupers left and right and finding LF in their bellies. Heck the only fish that we find LF inside of on a regular basis is, you guessed it, other lionfish! As for people that go out and feed culled LF to predators, well there are a lot of words to describe that practice, but my grandmother told me not to use those words in a public forum.

I've met the people you (OP) are talking about that are all anti culling "nature-will-find-a-way-you-murderous-so-and-so," and I guess everyone is entitled to an opinion even if it is ill informed. What I haven't met is a marine biologist, or even a marine conservationist that agrees with that opinion.
 
Well I just do not know what to do. I know my dive buddies love shooting the lions, but it still feels odd to me to shooting ornamentals. When I was a kid we caught them and sold them at the local fish shop. I bet the local market is flooded with lions these days.
 
Well I just do not know what to do. I know my dive buddies love shooting the lions, but it still feels odd to me to shooting ornamentals. When I was a kid we caught them and sold them at the local fish shop. I bet the local market is flooded with lions these days.

I swear I read that the aquarium trade was still bringing in lions from the pacific.


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I object to it for myself personally, but I'm not going to tell other people they can't do it. :)

Thanks for the response, would you care to elaborate?

Would you object to killing the fish yourself for reasons like not believing it is morally right or is it just along the lines of not feeling comfortable killing something. Whats your opinion on the issue as a whole?
 
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