Does Nitrox make you feel better? (split from Nitrox on OW course)

[scubadada]

Well there's 2 problems I see:

1. Increased cost of Nitrox:

Consider this thought experiment: Company XYZ creates a "cure" for a non-fatal sickness (cold or something). There is no double-blind study to support its effectiveness, but people using it seem to think it makes their cold better. The company charges $5 for a daily pill. While working at company XYZ you discover it is just a sugar pill. Has the company done anything wrong? After all, cold's aren't dangerous, just annoying: if people feel better after using the pill, then that is $5 well spent. Still, to me, something feels wrong about this.


2. Passing the info on to others
It's one thing to spend your own money on Nitrox for the sole reason of "feeling better", but passing along non-scientific information to others means they might be wasting their money as well. So yes, I do think it "matters" if it is true or not, especially when it would be realtively easy to test.

Prescription medications cannot make a claim for efficacy unless efficacy and safety have been satisfactorily demonstated with well designed clinical trials evaluated by the FDA. The ingredients in prescription drugs are well documented. On the other hand, nutritional supplements and some over the counter medications may may efficacy claims that are not substantiated and where safety may not have been adequately demonstrated. The ingredients, particularly in nutrional supplements, may not be so well documented or standardized.

For nitrox, extended bottom times when a dive is limited by NDL seems to be a well documented benefit. Reduction of fatigue, on the other hand, seems to be an unsubstantiated claim. Buyer beware.

Good diving, Craig

 

[Thalassamania]

Thal makes a very important point here. He feels better, perhaps even defiantly so, ...

Ah, the joys of spell checkers ... that should have read definitely, not defiantly.

 

[scubadada]

Ah, the joys of spell checkers ... that should have read definitely, not defiantly.

I like it that way, you often have strong opinions, your feelings should be that way too

Good diving, Craig

 

[Walter]

FACT: I perform better, am more alert, have better cognitive and motor skills (there, see how I removed "*feel* better") after diving on EAN32.
FACT: for a given dive that I do, EAN32 reduces nitrogen loading compared to air.

FACT: You believe you perform better, you believe you are more alert, have better cognitive and motor skills (there, see how I turned it into an actual fact?) after diving on EAN32.
FACT: for a given dive that I do, EAN32 reduces nitrogen loading compared to air.

 

[lamont]

I buy nitrox to prolong my dive time, which it will always do unless the dive is limited by gas volume rather than by NDL. I do not feel less fatigued using nitrox rather than air and the small amount of scientific data on the topic supports my view.

The rest of the discussion is an emotional one rather than intellectual one and will not be resolved no matter how long it is debated on ScubaBoard. To each their own.

Good diving, Craig

There's a really vast majority of scientific evidence that correlates DCS risk with increased nitrogen gas loading, and fatigue is a symptom of DCS. So if we're weighing scientific evidence, I believe you're on the wrong end. You'd need to come up with some evidence that fatigue had nothing to do with inspired inert gases (e.g. it was due to immersion), but anyone who does technical diving and has not done enough of their deco and taken a fatigue hit -- or added a bit of O2 to clean up on a long 32% dive and noticed the beneficial difference afterwards -- is going to take a lot of convincing that it is caused by anything other than inert gas issues...

And it sounds like you've just never taken a fatigue hit -- which means that either you are exceptionally careful with your stops, very well perfused, just haven't dove enough yet, or aren't paying attention to your post-dive condition...

 

[scubadada]

Exactly the point lamont. If you end up with less tissue nitrogen (diving nitrox with air tables as Thal does...), you will have a decreased risk of DCS and other nitrogen related phenomena. If you end up with the same tissue nitrogen load (diving nitrox to the same limit as you would dive air with a longer bottom time..) differences would not be demonstrable.

You are are correct, I do not believe I've taken a "fatigue hit". I am careful with my stops, may be well perfused, only have 427 dives/156 with nitrox, but do pay close attention to both my pre and post-dive condition.

Good diving, Craig

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I defiantly feel better after diving with nitrous. For some reason though, it increases my narcosis.

Some people tell me it's all in my head, to which I respond, "Of course! Where else would it be?"

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Tigerman]

I defiantly feel better after diving with nitrous. For some reason though, it increases my narcosis.

Some people tell me it's all in my head, to which I respond, "Of course! Where else would it be?"

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

And more importantly; "how would that make me less impaired?"

 

[Van Isle]

FACT: Walter thinks that Van Isle believes he performs better, you believe you are more alert, have better cognitive and motor skills (there, see how I turned it into an actual fact?) after diving on EAN32.
FACT: for a given dive that I do, EAN32 reduces nitrogen loading compared to air.

Silly Goose! I believe the opposite, but the corroborating evidence tells me otherwise. Therefore, I KNOW I perform better, etc etc.

How do you ever "know" when you have to take a dump? Do you conduct a double blind study every time you need to cr&p? How do you know when to stop eating? Do you conduct a rigorous examination of your stomach? Or do you feel full?

A studious technician might you be, but never a real thinker.

Bah anyways.

Peace
VI

 

[Walter]

Silly Goose! I believe the opposite, but the corroborating evidence tells me otherwise. Therefore, I KNOW I perform better, etc etc.

You believe the opposite of what you know. Is that the mark of a real thinker? The mark of someone who thinks he's a real thinker?

What is the evidence? Please share.