Double bladder wing for a Halcyon backplate/harness?

[mos11b1p]

Halcyon does NOT make a double bladder "doubles" wing because (i have been told) they believe when diving doubles, one's drysuit is the single-bladder-BCD's redundancy. However, what is your option if you're diving in a wetsuit? You have no secondary inflation capability should the inflator fail in a single bladder type BCD. I dive a 7mil Henderson Instadry and it's plenty warm enough for me. My Tec instructor wants me to get a double bladder BCD wing. Since Halcyon doesnt make one, will ANY OTHER BRAND of double bladder fit onto my Halcyon backplate and harness? (I really hate the idea of having to invest in a completly new setup. I'd rather buy a different brand of double bladder and bolt it onto my Halcyon rig. Can I??)

 

[SparticleBrane]

Yes..

 

[mos11b1p]

any particular brand will work? can you give me a little more input? I realize I asked a "yes/no" question at the end...but help me out.

 

[nadwidny]

My Tec instructor wants me to get a double bladder BCD wing.

Find a new instructor.

 

[scubadobadoo]

This question is best suited for the BCD forum. My guess is you would get more specific answers. I also suggest you simply start with the question, "Is a double bladder BCD for doubles worth buying and why or why not?" Good luck and welcome to Scuba Board!

 

[In10se]

You have to remember where you are here mos11b1p. This is scubaboard. The question you asked, while a very sensible one considering your needs, is going to invite the XXX (you know who you are) nazi's and any troll looking for someone to toss bombs at for his own personal amusement.

In answer to your question, yeah there are double bladders ... OMS has 'em, any Dive Rite "Dual" wing has double bladders, Apeks has them as well ... so get what you want and dive the way you want. No you don't need to fire an instructor who is just making sure you do have some kind of wing redundancy. That is what you are paying him/her for ... to make sure that while diving your way you still have redundancy in all things critical.

While setting up my kit I found several wings with dual bladders, and I even saw a diver with two separate wings sandwiched into his kit. I asked him wth was the deal on that one?!?!? He seemed to feel that any external event sharp enough to compromise the stronger material of your wing and reach the bladder inside is likely to take them both out. For instance if you're dive a wreck and get a puncture, will the wing intrusion stop at that second bladder? Probably not hence the his extra wing, and hence the tech diver's preferred method of a drysuit for redundant buoyancy. You are not interested in a dry suit so you need a different redundancy solution, but really ... you might would want to evaluate what will actually work when you need that redundancy.

What I'm doing is getting the double bladder for my steel dbl's in case I have a catastrophic bladder failure (as in the bladder itself just goes psssssssss spluff and breaks) so I don't hit the bottom like a lawn dart. The second bladder will help me with that. A 100lb lift bag is also becoming a permanent part of my kit. I'll do skill drills at depth deploying it while sporting my full dbl steel faber 98's.

I have a SMB with a good dump valve that works as a 30lb lift bag, and I've done the drills with it from 70ffw to see if I could ride it up. I was kitted up with dbl al80's, a 3ml farmer john, and a 6lb ss bp/45lbw while wearing 4lb's of lead. I weigh 205. I clipped the smb to my scooter ring and used my secondary to inflate it 'til I was just barely pos and cruised on up 'til I dumped myself neutral at 35ffw, hung there for a few just for the pretense, then rinse & repeat at 15ffw for a 3 minute ss ... and on up to the surface. The smb got me to the surface in amusing fashion. It was a fun skill drill and it assured me that if my bladder craps out on me I'm okay ... in a rec dive. A lift bag or an smb is not much use in an overhead environment.

Don't kit up like this and then go dive a wreck with the intention of going in. If you have a failed bladder in a an overhead environment with no bladder redundancy and no drysuit with only a liftbag or an smb ... you might be very unhappy with the exit.

Think I'll go swim my smb around tomorrow at 100ffw just for s-n-g's and see just how hard it would be to exit a wreck with just an smb for buoyancy. If I can get my dive buddy to take some pic's I'll post them in this thread for the humor of it.

I'm prolly soooo going to get flamed for this post but w/e. It answers the OP's question as best as I can.

 

[Gombessa]

Since Halcyon doesnt make one, will ANY OTHER BRAND of double bladder fit onto my Halcyon backplate and harness? (I really hate the idea of having to invest in a completly new setup. I'd rather buy a different brand of double bladder and bolt it onto my Halcyon rig. Can I??)

The answer is short because backplate/wing bolt spacing is standardized at 11 inches. That means any doubles wing will fit on any backplate. You'll only have "compatibility" problems with singles wings if you do not use an STA.

 

[bubbleblowindude]

Here's the poop. First, please reconsider your instructor since he doesn't seem to understand the basic tenent of diving a "balanced" system. Please allow me to explain: since you're wearing a wet suit which when compressed at 100 ft has approximately +6 lbs of buoyancy as compared to +22 lbs of buoyancy at the surface, and given that you make the correct tank selection which in this case should be aluminum 80's, you will need to utilize a weight belt weighing approximately 12 lbs. (will vary slightly depending on body composition) If you had a catastrophic wing failure at 100 ft, and "ditched" your 12 lb weight belt, you would have to swim up against a weight of 12 lbs until you reached 15 ft at which point your suit will have regained enough bouyancy to become neutral and allow for a deco stop. Now I dont know about you, but when I was a kid we used to swim down to the deep end of the pool and pick up one of those 12 lb rubber blocks and swim to the surface. As an adult, with fins, I'm certain I can do the same thing if not substantialy more. Consider the other facts; a hole in a wing does not necessarily mean that it will not trap ANY gas (by using body position substantial gas may still be trapped given you haven't gotten suckered into one of the "bungie" wings on the market which may "squeeze" the gas from a punctured wing). Also, one of the most common problems with a double wing is that the "secondary" inflator often gets tucked behind the diver in a tough to reach position, and a slight leak or unintended inflation may go unnoticed by the diver until they reach their deco stop at which point they cannot hold their stop. Double-bladder wings in short, fix a problem which does not necessarily need to exist. Best advice, refine your technique to the point where you're not diving over-weighted, dive a balanced rig, and seek training from a GUE instructor to maximize your fun and proficiency.

 

[In10se]

Here's the poop. First, please reconsider your instructor since he doesn't seem to understand the basic tenent of diving a "balanced" system. Please allow me to explain: since you're wearing a wet suit which when compressed at 100 ft has approximately +6 lbs of buoyancy as compared to +22 lbs of buoyancy at the surface, and given that you make the correct tank selection which in this case should be aluminum 80's, you will need to utilize a weight belt weighing approximately 12 lbs. (will vary slightly depending on body composition) If you had a catastrophic wing failure at 100 ft, and "ditched" your 12 lb weight belt, you would have to swim up against a weight of 12 lbs until you reached 15 ft at which point your suit will have regained enough bouyancy to become neutral and allow for a deco stop. Now I dont know about you, but when I was a kid we used to swim down to the deep end of the pool and pick up one of those 12 lb rubber blocks and swim to the surface. As an adult, with fins, I'm certain I can do the same thing if not substantialy more. Consider the other facts; a hole in a wing does not necessarily mean that it will not trap ANY gas (by using body position substantial gas may still be trapped given you haven't gotten suckered into one of the "bungie" wings on the market which may "squeeze" the gas from a punctured wing). Also, one of the most common problems with a double wing is that the "secondary" inflator often gets tucked behind the diver in a tough to reach position, and a slight leak or unintended inflation may go unnoticed by the diver until they reach their deco stop at which point they cannot hold their stop. Double-bladder wings in short, fix a problem which does not necessarily need to exist. Best advice, refine your technique to the point where you're not diving over-weighted, dive a balanced rig, and seek training from a GUE instructor to maximize your fun and proficiency.

Your 1000+ dives beats my 40ish dives any day. I do have to ask a few questions though, based on those 40ish dives. Don't be mad, I'm not trying to be confrontational. With my dbl al80's I'm neg on the front of the dive and barely neg at the end. If I had a bladder failure at 100ffw it would not be fun to try to swim up my kit. With steel dbl95's I'll be like 19lb's neg just on the tanks. I'd have to ditch my tanks. Some kind of redundancy seems like a better way to skin that cat than just relying on balance and proficiency alone. I won't go into my buddy obligations .... but I've been taught redundant buoyancy is a necessity. If we don't use a redundant bladder, or have some other form of redundant buoyancy besides a drysuit then what do we do?

 

[stairman]

As stated the holes in the wings are universal.I dive a dualrec wing with double steel 95's.Diving dry is not for me.Mines a Dive-rite with bungees removed.Secondary inflator stays tucked and disconnected.If needed I disconnect the primary inflator and hook up the backup.