Dropped frames... and their impact on product

[drbill]

Over the past two weeks I have been trying to finalize my opus magnus, the new DVD set on the Sharks and Rays of Southern California. I use Adobe Premiere 6.0 to do all my non-HD video editing, and have for a number of years.

In reviewing the segments for this DVD project, I discovered several that Premiere reported (in Properties) as having "empty" or dropped frames. I was surprised at this since I've had no indication of dropped frames during the production process. I checked every segment for this series and discovered that an unexpectedly high percentage of them report dropped frames amounting to as many as 239 in a 5-10 min segment.

I checked a few of the video segments from my previous DVD products and noted no such problem with them. I checked the base footage from which the final segments on the current project were created, and only found three (less than 10% of all source video files) that indicated dropped frames.

My question to the real video gurus on this board (I only play one here and on TV since I'm really a lowly dive bum and marine biologist), is how will this affect my final product. In reviewing the affected segments from videotape, I see no obvious affects. However, when I use the segments to render the final DVDs, will they pose problems?

Any ideas on why dropped frames should suddenly start being a problem after producing seven previous DVD's and countless cable TV episodes without noticeable problems? My software and computer have not changed (perhaps it is time?)

This production has made greater use of stills inserted within the video as well as titles (text and arrows mainly). Could these affect the reported "dropped frames?"

I'm hesitant to release this new product if these may affect its playability for my customers.

 

[drbill]

Just to make sure the problem is clear. These are not video segments with dropped frames that occurred during capture from a video device. These are video segments which were output from selected work areas on the timeline using the file/export/movie option.

I'm totally amazed that any dropped frames would result in this process since it is simply a copying of the video data to a new file in a non time-critical fashion (that is no need to keep up with frame rate as when capture is from an external video device.

I'm leaning in the direction of hardware issues. In fact, I think the "apparent" (not fully verified that it isn't something like loose cables) fact the boot drive just crashed a few hours ago may have something to do with the dropped frames.

 

[Papa_Bear]

Check your software settings! Also I was thinking firewire or cable as well! Have you defraged the drive? Are you feeding it out to a recorder or publishing within the system?

 

[Papa_Bear]

Have you upgraded anything? It could be your ram going bad or new requirements of an upgrade?

 

[Papa_Bear]

if nothing else works ask the question here: IndieTalk - Indie Film Forum

 

[Papa_Bear]

This a good one to have saved: http://www.leitch.com/resources/applicationNotes/timecode.pdf

 

[Rick Inman]

I have hundreds of hours of export with the software you're using Bill, and have never seen a dropped frame during export.

Question: Where is your export destination? Harddrive? Is it a designated harddrive? Usually a Premier dropped frame is an indication of the receiving destination hardware having an issue. I would try exporting to a different harddrive as a test. You may have to replace your existing harddrive (assuming you already cleaned up and defraged the thing).

 

[PerroneFord]

If you are exporting video from the same drive as the source, you are asking your drive to do double duty. If there is a speed issue, buffering issue, cache issue, memory issue, or anything else, this is when it is going to show up.

Defrag your drive at a minumum. Dropped frame will show as blackouts on digital videos if enough of them occur concurrently.

 

[drbill]

Many thanks to all who have offered solutions. I think the answer is within those responses, as I feared... hardware failure. Yes, the boot drive is dead although I'll start a few attempts to revive it before I actually replace it. Again, no data for any of the projects was on it for was any output from the timeline writtten to it.

All exports to the timeline are done to one of the seven data hard drives on my video editing system. I almost never export to a hard drive that contains any of the data used on the project timeline. I am going to check the data drive I used to export these segments to. It may be going as well. Our power here is pretty lousy (although I do use a line conditioner).

Once I've moved the two data drives with the project data on them to my laptop, I
'll re-export all the segments for the project using that computer. If (as expected) it is a hardware only issue, then all should be fine.

Papa_Bear- No changes in software settings or additions of new software/hardware to this system in over a year. Thanks for the links.

Rick- my experience has been the same as yours, which is why this attracted my attention. I'd never seen dropped frames in an exported AVI file.

PerroneFord- Drive hadn't been defragged for a few months, but most of the data on it was static anyway (older, completed project files). No visual signs of these dropped frames during my review of these segments over the past few weeks so they must be very intermittent.

A question... if one is exporting from the timeline, doesn't the computer or the software adjust the export's progress accordingly when a problem such as buffering, etc., is encountered? After all, it is not exporting to a tape where frame rate is an issue.

Again, thanks to all. I'm glad I have a multiple backup system, especially on a project like this one. Does look like I'll be researching a new computer regardless.

 

[drbill]

An interesting update with new questions!

Computer back and operational. After running numerous diagnostic tests on the boot drive, all said it functioned flawlessly. I checked the Win 2000 Pro installation and repaired it with the repair disk I created a year ago. Everythinbg back up and running.

I tested one segment, on blue sharks. Total project length on timeline 6:00:00. None of the project clips involved show dropped frames.

I output five separate versions of the footage to five separate hard drives on my system, then checked the properties of each of these segments by importing them into a new project. Each one showed 177 "empty" frames. I watched one of the segments and again saw no visible evidence of any dropped frames.

I looked to see how many frames in the project were created from still images, and there were 22 seconds worth. At almost 30 fps, that would be nearly 660 frames. No correlation with the number of "empty" frames reported.

I'm still lost on why this is happening, but I'm going to proceed and finalize the project tomorrow and see if anyone has any problems with the resulting DVDs.

Any clues re: the above, I'm sure all ears. Thanks again to those who already offered feedback.

After I finish this four month project, I'm going to Disneyland (haven't been since 1964)... er, I mean diving all three days this weekend!!!