Dropped reg question

[Scott M]

Ok here's the story. My buddy and I are out doing a couple of dives off my boat. Our first dive goes with out a hitch, we do our SI and make our way over to the second site we plan to dive. While gearing up he put his tank and BP/W up on a staging table we have on the boat. The tank took a full double gainer off the table hitting the floor full force landing right on the reg. It blow the o-ring immediately. After shutting it down and replacing the o-ring we hooked it back up but it is leaking badly. He took the regs to the same shop I had a lot of problems with my reg rebuild. They tightened the nut and basically said your all set. I don't know enough about regs to know if this was all it needed or not but I have done a lot of mechanical work in my day and I just have a hard time figuring out how the nut backed itself off with just a fall. It does not make sense to me. The only thing that could have happened to me is that when it hit, the nut jumped a thread which is a much more serious problem. I am going to bring them to another shop. They are not authorized for this reg but the guy is the best in the area.

Is it possible that a fall could back the nut off enough to have a complete o-ring failure?

I just don't trust the repair and we are going on vacation in a month.

 

[JBRES1]

Have you checked to see if the part of the first stage that contacts the o-ring surface was bend by the force of the fall.
I ask this because my Daughter trashed a Sherwood reg the same way.
The reg looked fine, but on closer look you could see that the lip of the reg that contacts the tank valve was bent.

I hope your luck is better than my Daughters.
Jim Breslin

 

[DA Aquamaster]

If the reg is an inline design like the Scubapro Mk 2, it is unlikely that the yoke retainer would be loosened in a fall as there is really nothing that would apply the rerquired torque the reg. On the other hand if the first stage to yoke forms more of a "T" or an "L" shape, then it is much more likely that an impact from a fall could loosen the yoke retainer.

If in doubt, you can always ask for the yoke retainer to be replaced with a new one.

 

[JamieS]

You might also want to check the yolk itself. I did exactly the same thing once and the yolk bent just a little bit. However, that was enough to never allow it to seal again. But, a new yolk didn't cost too much and nothing inside was damaged.

 

[Scott M]

Thanks for the replies. His reg is a an Apeks ATX50 (DS4? 1st stage I think). Before we unhooked them from the tank the yoke looked to be bent down and the nut was very loose. It took a very hard hit. Personally I thought the yoke was bent and possibly the part that the nut screws onto. From the replies it sounds like both of these parts can be replaced? Yes?

I don't have his reg in front of me but he is bringing it over tonight. I am going to bring them to another LDS for safety. We are also going to have a look for ourselves.

Thanks again

 

[cmburch]

Yes, the yoke is easy to replace. It can be checked by holding a small ruler against it and checking for flatness and if all distances are similar. I have seen the yoke knob open and blow an o-ring due to a fall with no damage to yoke (Looking like you said). I have also seen improperly seated leaking o-rings that worked well after reseating if not deformed or damaged. I would check the mating surfaces on tank valve and first stage closely for marring or gouged up metal. I can not imagine the brass nut holding the yoke to the the valve body threaded portion having a damaged thread though. It may be fine.

I will look for a manual.

http://www.scubatoys.com/servicemanuals/apeks/apeks.asp

Hope this helps.

 

[scubafanatic]

Ok here's the story. My buddy and I are out doing a couple of dives off my boat. Our first dive goes with out a hitch, we do our SI and make our way over to the second site we plan to dive. While gearing up he put his tank and BP/W up on a staging table we have on the boat. The tank took a full double gainer off the table hitting the floor full force landing right on the reg. It blow the o-ring immediately. After shutting it down and replacing the o-ring we hooked it back up but it is leaking badly. He took the regs to the same shop I had a lot of problems with my reg rebuild. They tightened the nut and basically said your all set. I don't know enough about regs to know if this was all it needed or not but I have done a lot of mechanical work in my day and I just have a hard time figuring out how the nut backed itself off with just a fall. It does not make sense to me. The only thing that could have happened to me is that when it hit, the nut jumped a thread which is a much more serious problem. I am going to bring them to another shop. They are not authorized for this reg but the guy is the best in the area.

Is it possible that a fall could back the nut off enough to have a complete o-ring failure?

I just don't trust the repair and we are going on vacation in a month.

.....you're right I wouldn't trust such a 'repair' either. Do you really want to spend your whole vacation worrying if/when your O-ring is going to blow out ? I've seen this sort of thing happen to other divers on boats....I've had a couple of close calls myself...once in Coz where, on a 6-pack, with us speeding into high waves, the tank popped out of the holder and impacted a dive bag on the floor, instead of the deck, no damage...another time, I caught the tank in-mid fall.....nice save! However, in two other instances, I wasn't so lucky...my dive buddy trashed my Aqualung Titan LX (a trip loaner) on one trip.....and I trashed my own Apex reg on another trip. (all yoke regs) The Aqualung actually required a whole new 1st-stage body, as the O-ring mating surface is part of the body itself and can't be removed separately.......the Apex, from what I remember, was built such that I could salvage the 1st-stage body and just replace the O-ring mating surface. Both regs are back to new condition and have been working just fine ever since.
Remember, the O-ring mating surface is soft brass under the chrome and I'll bet you managed to imprint/damage that soft brass...depending on the severity/angle of impact, that damage will be very obvious, or perhaps rather subtle but it will still be there under close examination.

Do yourself a favor and just go ahead and replace the O-ring mating surface on the 1st-stage...trust me, if you don't it will come back to haunt you at the worst/most inopportune time...life is too short to have this nagging you in the back of your mind, isn't it ?

...also, as others have mentioned, depending on the exact nature of the impact, you may have damaged the yoke (bent) or yoke screw as well (stripped threads on the screw itself or within the yoke body)...also, you might have stressed/impacted the points where the hoses attach to the 1st-stage...either damaging the soft brass threads in the 1st-stage...or damaging the hoses internally where they're crimped off at the ends...so beware of that too.

Karl

 

[Scott M]

Yes, the yoke is easy to replace. It can be checked by holding a small ruler against it and checking for flatness and if all distances are similar. I have seen the yoke knob open and blow an o-ring due to a fall with no damage to yoke (Looking like you said). I have also seen improperly seated leaking o-rings that worked well after reseating if not deformed or damaged. I would check the mating surfaces on tank valve and first stage closely for marring or gouged up metal. I can not imagine the brass nut holding the yoke to the the valve body threaded portion having a damaged thread though. It may be fine.

I will look for a manual.

Apeks Scuba diving Manuals - Apeks Service Manuals - Apeks Titan Regulator Manuals

Hope this helps.

Good advise. Thank for the link to the manual. When we have a look tonight I will have a better idea of whats wronf. Either way I think it is prudent to change any and all effected parts.

Regards

 

[Scott M]

.....you're right I wouldn't trust such a 'repair' either. Do you really want to spend your whole vacation worrying if/when your O-ring is going to blow out ? I've seen this sort of thing happen to other divers on boats....I've had a couple of close calls myself...once in Coz where, on a 6-pack, with us speeding into high waves, the tank popped out of the holder and impacted a dive bag on the floor, instead of the deck, no damage...another time, I caught the tank in-mid fall.....nice save! However, in two other instances, I wasn't so lucky...my dive buddy trashed my Aqualung Titan LX (a trip loaner) on one trip.....and I trashed my own Apex reg on another trip. (all yoke regs) The Aqualung actually required a whole new 1st-stage body, as the O-ring mating surface is part of the body itself and can't be removed separately.......the Apex, from what I remember, was built such that I could salvage the 1st-stage body and just replace the O-ring mating surface. Both regs are back to new condition and have been working just fine ever since.
Remember, the O-ring mating surface is soft brass under the chrome and I'll bet you managed to imprint/damage that soft brass...depending on the severity/angle of impact, that damage will be very obvious, or perhaps rather subtle but it will still be there under close examination.

Do yourself a favor and just go ahead and replace the O-ring mating surface on the 1st-stage...trust me, if you don't it will come back to haunt you at the worst/most inopportune time...life is too short to have this nagging you in the back of your mind, isn't it ?

...also, as others have mentioned, depending on the exact nature of the impact, you may have damaged the yoke (bent) or yoke screw as well (stripped threads on the screw itself or within the yoke body)...also, you might have stressed/impacted the points where the hoses attach to the 1st-stage...either damaging the soft brass threads in the 1st-stage...or damaging the hoses internally where they're crimped off at the ends...so beware of that too.

Karl

Karl, I agree completely, I will not be a fun trip spending the better part of my time watching his reg and waiting for it to break. If the parts are replacable that is really the right thing to do. I have a contact for Apeks rebuild kits I will have to see if he can get the parts we will need. We will have the other dive shop do the repair.

Thanks