DSAT Tech Deep Diver.

[padiscubapro]

That's twice we had "certain aspects" referred to in this thread (padiscubapro also mentioned it in #post2).
I would also be very interested to know what exactly you guys are referring to. If there are important weaknesses that can effect this level of training I'd really rather hear about them before I do it - I only have one life!

fisrt I am a bit nitpicky about treating definaitons correctly, the PADI manual abuses some terms badly..

for example when you get the manual look the athe residual toxicity for oxygen calculations, they have this nice table to make it easy for you..

The normally agreed upon half life of oxygen is 90 minutes, this means that after 90 minutes of surface interval you have half remaing, on padi's chart you aren't at half until 91 minutes.. Little things like this tell me how careful an agency is.. If I took their exam I would get this problem wrong because I wouldn't use their chart, I would do it as a true half life..

I think PADI'S gear config is a bit too restrictive for my taste.. They don't allow for individual freedom and diver choice.. I feel a diver should be presented with multiple options and see what works best for them.. not a this works for everyone attitude..

for example Alot of the "standard" gear configs are geared towards righties and some things are harder to do for a lefty.. Optimizing their gear for their need should be allowed, but it is not...

There are other points but this should give you an idea why my PERSONAL choice was not to apply to teach the program..

 

[mania]

Kim
I have finally found the discussion that was here about DSAT several months ago.
Some of the opponents’ arguments were already mentioned here. Few other are:
DSAT combines in one training both Normoxic TMX and full TMX (which every other tech agency teaches separately). That means a diver after 6 or 12 training dives done up to 50 meters can in fact dive up to 120 meters. That's more than twice as much. There is a huge difference between 50 and 120 meters and the basic question raised here was - whether such diver is in fact mentally prepared to go that deep.
Another thing that was pointed out - RecTec seems to be a paradox - either recreational or technical - you can't do recreational technical dives.
As I stated - this are reflections of the discussion we had in Poland about DSAT program.
Last but not least - DSAT do not incorporate any of the DIR rules which I think we all can agree make sense (whether you like GUE or not) and are tought by other tech agencies.
Some of other events that took place here resulted in the lesser popularity of this program in Poland.
Mania

 

[Kim]

Mania - Obviously I haven't done this course yet so my comments are based on what I have read from the course descriptions.
The Tech Deep course isn't a Trimix course at all. It's deco diving using Eanx up to 100% for deco - with a depth limit of 50m. As far as I have been told it is more or less Advanced Nitrox/Decompression procedures/Technical Diver/Extended range all together (it's not an exact match for some agencies though)
Trimix is another course which I don't know much about - maybe they teach Hypoxic/Normoxic together - I don't know. I also don't know which dives you'd do for that but as they say it is to go beyond 50m then I suppose that you do!
For me, RecTech is simply a name. It's probably simply a recognition that a lot more divers these days want to learn more than the standard recreational fare - but they still do it for fun. Like I said though - it's just a name and doesn't really reflect the attitude that is needed for technical diving - which I have every reason to believe is taught completely in the DSAT courses.
I don't know exactly what you mean about 'GUE's rules'. DSAT does teach equipment configuration (see padiscubapro's post above yours!). He reckons that it is even very restrictive - but I've heard exactly the same thing said about GUE on many occasions - so what's the difference? DSAT uses manifolded doubles with a long hose - and O2 deco bottles - as far as I can tell exactly like everyone else (maybe there are some things like which post primary/backup/routing - I don't know as I didn't do the course yet).
Basically for me, I have to fly at least 6 hours away to get to a good instructor (unless I go to Tokyo which becomes just as expensive - if not more so). I can't do this every week so I don't mind the intense approach of DSAT. I'd prefer to go to Malaysia for a couple of weeks and learn how to do it all at once from someone I already know.
From what I have seen on this thread the people who have taken it all thought it was VERY good, and no-one has said that it produces dangerous unreliable tech divers who shouldn't be in the water (unlike what you often hear about PADI OW!!!!)
Sure there are a few criticisms about some things - and I can understand why some people might not like it for that.
However - no-one has actually said - Don't do it, it's not worth it.

 

[mania]

However - no-one has actually said - Don't do it, it's not worth it.

Niether did I. As I'm not (yet) a technical diver I only presented some comments from the discussion that took place in Poland. The discussion - and I should have mentioned that - was about generally all DSAT products.
I'm probably in a bit more comfortable situation having close some great IANTD instructors and in the near future some GUE ones. So for me the choice is obvioius. In your situation I would have probably the same dillema as you have.
Mania

 

[Kim]

If I had my IANTD instructor available (he is a partner with Ben in Malaysia) then I would most certainly have done that. Unfortunately JC isn't in Malaysia these days so Ben offered me this course in the place of the IANTD equivalents.
I could go to Tokyo and do GUE courses but to be perfectly honest it would cost me about the same to go there and do DIR-F as it'll cost me to go to Malaysia and do Tech Deep. For me I'm just checking that the DSAT course is worth while (which I have now concluded as a result of this thread it is) - before I make up my mind and start saving!
In the end everyone says that it's about the instructor. Ben is good - I did other things with him and JC - plus I have close to 40 other dives with them. As I mentioned earlier - I did my rescue with his girlfriend. At least I know how his op works and what sort of attitude he has!

 

[mania]

I did my rescue with his girlfriend.

A small hi-jack. C'mon Kim admit it - it's the girlfriend you are looking for not the Tech Deep course....

Mania
PS. Just kidding but couldn't resist

 

[Mortlock]

It looks like your mind is made up Kim.

I can only reiterate that I found the DSAT course to be excellent and if you know and are confident with your instructor then you'll most probably find it to be the same. Getting a hold of the manual and doing some (if not all) of the knowledge reviews before you go will make life a lot easier. There are a ton of things to learn and many people fail the exam. Becoming comfortable with all the theory will allow you to spend more time thinking about and preparing for, your time in the water.

When are you going?

Are you going to do some dives on the battlecruisers?

Morty

 

[Kim]

C'mon Kim admit it - it's the girlfriend you are looking for not the Tech Deep course....

She was a very beautiful Canadian girl....probably long gone now! At the time I was on my honeymoon with my new wife so I had more than enough to keep me occupied!

When are you going?

Are you going to do some dives on the battlecruisers?

I'm planning this for next March/April and yes...hopefully I'll do the last 4 dives from the course on the battlecruisers - and then two more dives as well (3 day liveaboard). I still don't know how much that increases the cost though.

 

[Xizang]

Is it true that you can do the DSAT Tec Deep Diver Course Instructor course without getting certified as a DSAT Tec Deep Diver Course first?

http://www.rudysdivecenter.com/tecrecmain.htm

but you need to be at least a PADI MSDT.. I wonder if IANTD does it this way also

 

[Kim]

No it's not true.
Look at this page:
http://www.rudysdivecenter.com/tecrecmain.htm

You need either Tech Deep or the equivelent from another agency (amongst other things!)

edit:
Sorry that link brings up the same page you posted. Look on the left menu and go to the Prerequisites and Postrequisites.