First OW class, lots of gear questions!

[Aloha Joe]

I had so much fun in my first class - so much that it's hard to describe without using expletives. I should try - I had a blast, it was super fun, more than I expected. The instructor is absolutely amazing (unbelievably good) and scuba just feels really natural and intuitive to me. I started with a Freedom Plate (backplate) and harness, and a used regulator rig, and was anxious about piecing things together for my first kit. But it all came together at the last minute and I really love the platform, and now I just need to make some tweaks. I emailed the instructor last week and asked if she was OK if I used my own 'different' gear than the class, and she preferred that I learn in what I plan on using. She's great at accommodating, even recommending and supporting my trying the 'primary donate' OOA method, for example. Anyway...

General gear questions:
Fins: I've used short, stiff snorkel fins and felt that the thrust was low for the amount of effort required (low efficiency). Now I have Mares Avanti Quattro - they are long and soft, and the thrust and efficiency are very good but I find that control is bad (ability to make small, precise adjustments - maybe due to 'delay' from fin flexing?). Do stiffness and control go hand-in-hand? Is a stiff 'vented' fin the solution to get control (from stiffness) with good thrust and less effort (from vents)?

Power inflator - we used the inflator (well, deflator) to adjust BC fill volume as opposed to using the 'dump'. With the inflator tied to my shoulder strap it was hard to raise high enough, and with it loose it was long and in the way, and yet hard to find. How are people securing them to their BC? Is there a way to keep it out of the way, but free enough to raise up? I probably need shorter hoses...

Alternate air source: I was using a 'necklace' to secure my secondary regulator, and using the 'primary donate' method for OOA practice. I was getting tangled with my snorkel when doffing my rig in the water (because of the necklace) - what am I doing wrong?

Reg hoses: I have the plastic flex reg hoses, but still felt like I needed (wanted) a swivel connection at the reg/hose union. Some of the time it seemed the hose was out in front of me, sort of trying to pull the reg out of my mount (not really bad, but not ideal). Is this just a length issue? Are there standard lengths? My primary reg has a turret, fwiw.

I feel like there's more questions but I can't think of them at the moment. I have a lot of adjusting to do - shoulder straps, belt clips, D-rings, bolt clips, etc. so that probably made it seem like there was more 'going on' than there really was.

 

[Marie13]

Snorkel and long hose primary don't go together. You've discovered why. Get rid of the darned snorkel after class.

 

[2airishuman]

I had so much fun in my first class

Cool!

Fins: I've used short, stiff snorkel fins and felt that the thrust was low for the amount of effort required (low efficiency). Now I have Mares Avanti Quattro - they are long and soft, and the thrust and efficiency are very good but I find that control is bad. Do stiffness and control go hand-in-hand? Is a stiff 'vented' fin the solution to get control (from stiffness) with good thrust and less effort (from vents)?

Generally, longer fins are more difficult to "control" if by "control" you mean do things like frog kick or try to kick backwards or do helicopter turns. The stiffness doesn't have much to do with it. The Avanti Quattro are not especially long fins but they are probably longer than your snorkel fins and even a few inches makes a noticeable difference. Practice will help with this.

Power inflator - we used the inflator (well, deflator) to adjust BC fill volume as opposed to using the 'dump'. With the inflator tied to my shoulder strap it was hard to raise high enough, and with it loose it was long and in the way, and yet hard to find. How are people securing them to their BC? Is there a way to keep it out of the way, but free enough to raise up? I probably need shorter hoses...

With a backplate the standard way of doing things is to have a somewhat (or very much) shorter inflator hose and a fairly loose loop of bungee material under the triglide for your left chest d-ring, with the inflator hose going through the bungee loop. There are various schools of thought on whether you put the big corrugated hose, or the little LP inflator hose, or both, through the bungee. In general if you need to dump air when in horizontal trim you want to learn to use the bottom dump on your wing. You can also learn to use your power inflator dump button with some amount of roll to bring your left shoulder up so you can use it without raising it very much.

Alternate air source: I was using a 'necklace' to secure my secondary regulator, and using the 'primary donate' method for OOA practice. I was getting tangled with my snorkel when doffing my rig in the water (because of the necklace) - what am I doing wrong?

This is a common argument against using a snorkel. I find that it just takes practice. You have to be aware of the bungee anyway and be sure it gets around your goggles, and the snorkel is just one more thing.

Reg hoses: I have the plastic flex reg hoses, but still felt like I needed (wanted) a swivel connection at the reg/hose union. Some of the time it seemed the hose was out in front of me, sort of trying to pull the reg out of my mount (not really bad, but not ideal). Is this just a length issue? Are there standard lengths? My primary reg has a turret, fwiw.

If the hose is going under your arm, the standard length is 40". Many divers, me included, place a 70 degree or 90 degree elbow at the connection between the 2nd stage and the hose. These allow the hose to turn but the angle itself is fixed unlike the omniswivel. I find that it is necessary and sufficient, but whether it is will depend on your body shape.


Enjoy

 

[2airishuman]

Snorkel and long hose primary don't go together. You've discovered why. Get rid of the darned snorkel after class.

I'm going to half agree with Marie here on what can be a pointlessly passionate discussion subject.

Confident, experienced divers often leave the snorkel at home, or bring a flexible snorkel in a pocket. Whether this is wise depends on the dive and the diver as there are some dives, like caves, where a snorkel is useless -- and other dives where it is a critical piece of safety gear. I am perfectly capable of diving a long hose and snorkel at the same time, and I am confident that most other people can too if they practice. Deploying the long hose, you just tilt your head so it misses the snorkel. Takes practice but it ain't hard.

Now, if you are confident that you can dive safely and comfortably without a snorkel, fine, go do it. If you're not sure then keep the snorkel and learn how to don and doff, and deploy and stow the long hose, with a snorkel in place.

One of the indications that you are ready to dive with out a snorkel is that you no longer notice the snorkel ....

 

[northernone]

Welcome! Sounds like you're enjoying every aspect of it. You'll find we love to talk equipment and the various advantages to different configurations. Here's a few answers to get us going.

Fins. Short stiff fins. Useful for maneuvering in small spaces, tight turns, going backwards while allowing careful motion to avoid disturbing the environment. Low efficiency over long distances but with good response to brute strength. Long flexible fins (freedivers, fish etc) great for propulsion in straight lines with large environmental disturbance. Eg. Silt. And are less suitable for 'fancy' fin motions but provide power and control with greater efficiency. Third category... weak fins for out of shape divers who want to float along and kick a little without feeling tired. (My view on fins is controversial)

Long hose and snorkel. If you want to carry a snorkel, stick it somewhere. Pocket, bungee under your wing, fold it and stuff it in a nook somewhere. It doesn't belong on your mask unless you're snorkelling. It can be a very very useful piece of dive equipment when surface conditions require it. This is seldom for most people.

Power inflator. Use a bicycle inner tube donut slice around your harness and your power inflator where you'd like it. Use the dumps or when venting through the power inflator remove it from the retaining rubber loop.

Hoses come in a half dozen common sizes. Body type etc can require longer or shorter. Swivels are wonderful if you like them. Failures are rare but possible. Not a significant factor for many people.


Just noticed you've already received quality replies as my internet connection continues to drop. Well, here's my write up anyway.

Keep the questions coming.
Looking forward to hearing how your training progresses.


Cameron

 

[Aloha Joe]

So shortening a power inflator doesn't seem like too big of a deal - except the (non-corregated) hose? The wing I got has a different quick-connect, I'll have to figure out what it is, and I guess try to find a shorter hose. (Actually, I just checked the IP gauge I got - it works with the inflator hose, but not the hose that came on my regs. The rental regs were not compatible with my BC inflator, either.)

The pool we were in is really too small for what they're doing with it. It was really cramped, so I was annoyed by the lack of precise control of the fins. I can imagine it's different in the ocean, except when I was snorkeling in Hawaii I remember wanting to stop, back up, and find things I saw from the corner of my eye. I guess it depends on what you're doing, and I guess people have lots of different fins! And I guess everything's a compromise - it's probably hard to find a fin that has great precise control that also doesn't require a ton of force for good thrust.

It sounds like I should finish OW before changing hoses and snorkel - if I get a foldable snorkel it might free up hose routing options, for example. I'll talk to the shop I found where I plan on doing my advanced and future classes and see what they do/recommend. For now, it makes sense to have a snorkel since I'll be diving in the ocean and from land. But it doesn't make sense to keep it flopping around next to my head as I progress.

I want to get Advanced, then Rescue, so I can volunteer at the Science Center (and be a better diver, have fun learning, and potentially be more useful to divers and the environment around me )

Unless I move to Hawaii first!

 

[tbone1004]

@Aloha Joe

Fins-Avanti's are fine for precise control, they're a popular cave diving fin in Mexico and Europe. Less so here, but not because they don't work, just other options that have become a bit more popular but are very simliar *Dive Rite XT's especially*. As you gain more experience, you will find them easier to control. Be patient on this.

Inflator- if you think about physics and how air comes out, you want a corrugated hose no longer than it needs to be for you to be able to orally inflate when you turn your head. It only needs to go "straight forward" when you are vertical to dump the gas, not over your head. Common misconception here but mainly stems from the super long hoses. What wing and inflator are you using that isn't compatible with standard inflator hoses?

AAS-is your struggle with the snorkel the necklace or the long hose itself? the necklace just means you have to take it off of your neck before you start taking the rig off. We teach all of our students to do this every year with no issues. Hint here though is to clip the necklace into the bolt snap on your primary regulator after you take it off your neck so it doesn't fly around everywhere.

Hoses-how long is your "long hose" and how is it routed? If you feel that you want a swivel, then get a swivel. Best bang for buck is the $25 ball swivels from cave adventurers

 

[Bob DBF]

Snorkel and long hose primary don't go together. You've discovered why. Get rid of the darned snorkel after class.

It can be done but is a pita, and got me to go to a 40" primary. It takes effort to use a snorkel with a bungeed backup, but can be done without too much trouble. I use a snorkel a lot so I keep it on, I understand why others don't. For OW the OP might want to use a standard reg configuration for the class.



Bob

 

[Aloha Joe]

I learned today that it's illegal to dive w/o a snorkel in California! "Big fines," she said. I asked my instructor about where to keep the snorkel, and she said she keeps hers clipped to her mask - only because a student lost her pocket snorkel

I think I have a 'standard' reg configuration right now - no long hose. The primary is really too short to be donating, and the secondary (a little longer) is too long to route to my necklace w/o looping it somewhere.

Today the instructor asked me to donate my secondary - I think mostly because the secondary hose is longer (primary is really too short for comfortable donating). I think I like the primary donate method better, fwiw.

I think a lot of my issue is that my corregated inflator hose is too long, the inflator supply hose is even too long for it, and my SPG hose is too long. Combine that with a swivelling first stage turret that sits pretty high behind me, and I've got a big rats nest on my left side. So when I doff/don my rig it can get messy. Clipping my octo to my rig will definitely help, and I'll clean everything up when I choose a method and place for my snorkel. Although I don't need to wait to get a shorter corregated hose...

BTW my 'long hose' isn't very long, and it's just routed under my right arm and goes to my necklace. So the hose ends up out in front of me sometimes.

Also, I tried my instructor's travel fins today - Oceanic Accel I believe. I really liked them! They were super easy to maneuver around, and I LOVED that they didn't sink! The were great in the pool but obviously propulsion took more work. I'll probably get a pair for when I need to pack small or plan on diving with less open space. I'm sure I'll appreciate the fins I've got once I get in the ocean.

 

[tbone1004]

hold out on buying new fins for a while until you get through this class, the fins you have don't sink, it may just be leg positioning

on the regs, if the primary is on the shorter hose, and that hose is less than 40", don't put it under your arm. Have them both going out to the side. It's annoying with rental regs, but once you get your own with proper hose lengths it will settle in a lot better.