Fresh diver OOA

[CoralSeaMan]

Did you ask the instructor if he was planning on practicing his rescue skills? It is a good thing you stayed calm because this is the type of environment in which errors can lead to serious consequences. One of the lessons you did not mention learning is to how to evaluate your dive buddies. Are you at least reconsidering this one?

 

[Imla]

After the dive, I would have made up some story and see if he would loan me his car keys,... then I would piss on his front seat...you know... just to teach him a lesson.

Sounds very irresponsible on his part due to the virtual overhead and current. Additionally, he should almost certainly have begun allowing you to share air, well before you got that low on air. It would have been much better to allow you to keep a larger reserve, assuming that was possible.

Now... I'm still a girl, and peeing in someones carseat would just be a hassle...
It is a good point you make about starting to share air sooner. I will put that in "the bank" for the next incident that will never happen... (However, I might need to help a buddy, and it is good to know of better ways)
I am not sure if I would categorize it as virtually overhead. However, somewhere in between maybe? It wouldn't be completely safe to surface as there could be boats, but the main thing was that the swim back would be longer on the surface if you had to pass the current.

This has always been a baffle to me. First the assembly line method of teaching students has been an argument for quiet some time. I mean you take 10 students out and teach them the absolute minimum and then turn them loose with a simple warning they should not go deeper then 60'. I have always been one to think scuba is one of the simplest things in the world to do but its not an over night skill. You see students constantly even in their 20th dive struggling with buoyancy and air management. They also are task loaded with all the joys of the diving world they want to take in such as coral reefs and shipwrecks. They have to watch their buddies and monitor their gas. Then they have to in many cases navigate an unfamiliar area which in itself can be stressful.

This guy was supposedly an instructor enjoying a little free diving time with a new diver so he should have known the first 30 or so dives are often the most impressionable. If a minor mistake happens and causes stress it can literaly scare a diver away from diving permanently. This would have in my opinion been much better handled in discussion rather then risking a all out panic that has the potential to cause a diver to fly to the surface and well we know what would happen then.

Dumpsterdiver is correct in that I would have went and pissed all over their door handle to their truck and only told them about it after he had opened the door. I have witnessed so many life threatening emergencies in my life from people who have almost burned to death, Shot and begging for life, I have witnessed babies born only to die later and I have witnessed heart attacks where people would be talking to loved ones about their big day tommorow and instead their loved ones had to make funeral arrangements for them instead of enjoying the planned day. Life is WAY too precious to gamble with when it comes to people who are not prepared to handle extreme risk.

How would this buddy have reacted if he had to explain to the local authorities that the O.P. was dead because he was trying to teach him a valuable lesson? Would he be charged would be entirely up to the D.A. (or the equivelant in the O.P.s Location) but he would definately not escape the permanent damage he will have inflicted on himself knowing he lead a person to their death and that the person was scared and begging to go to safety.

Sorry I just had to get this off my chest because it bothers me when people play with peoples lives!

So, I am right to be feeling that I am not the only one who should be embarrased by this incident? One thing I am happy about though is the way I was taught the basic skills by the first instructor I had (Not D2). I was never insecure about the prosedures and I never felt panicked. I even lowered my airconsumptionrate for the last part of the dive.
I have had a couple of dives with this first instructor after this, and we have had a run through of the story.

Very irresponsable behaviour of somebody who should instruct Safety First. But lukely you came out well and learnt the importance of a good buddy.

Yup... I learnt that my best buddy is me... (Bear in mind... I'm not a solodiver )

Stories like this are one of thr reasons I wrote this post a few years ago :

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/ne...ering-diving/283566-who-responsible-what.html

It is also the reason I wrote my book. This is a safe sport if one stays within the confines of their training and experience. And if it is done with full information and effective communication. Both of the last seem to be missing here. Running a new diver low on air is not teaching, task loading, or giving them a good lesson. IMO it is criminally irresponsible. Whether you actually got hurt is irrelevent. The fact is you could have been. That is negligent. I wouyld never dive with that instructor again and would make a conscious effort to let people know what he did. Yes you are responsible for your own dive and dive plan but new divers usually are not told this in stark terms. It is danced around and sugar coated so that you don't get scared and rethink the whole idea of getting certified. That comes from a training model based on profit rather than skills and education.

You now have an idea of just how deficient your training was. You may have gotten the skills, but the knowledge and a base to make good judgment calls was left in the trash. Time to start going beyond the text book you used and away from the instructor you used. Find new resources of information, a new instructor, and perhaps new agency. Disregrd the marketing hype of fun, sun, and quick easy rewards. It's bull crap big time. Time to become a diver as opposed to an underwater tourist. That requires study, dedication, and experience with buddies who will not put your safety anf life at risk to teach you a lesson. It requires real work and the ability to pick out quality instruction and training courses as well as a quality instructor. I have a whole chapter on how to do that as well. I will post an excerpt later. At work now and don't have access to the file.

I read your previous post. It was very good. Thank you for sharing. I have learnt my lesson!
I really had a very positive experience diving in Sharm in Egypt as well. Was diving with a complete piratescrew on a snorkletrip my mum wanted to go on. (Tanks fell off, weightbelts fell off, instructors swimming 30m in front of introdivers... aso) I always kept within MY limits. I had "leftover consciousness" (Don't know of a better way to say it) to be able to keep an eye on the others as well as keeping my own good and sensible limits (I am normally a very logical and stick to the rules person, so going ooa is quite the embarrassment)

So folks... I have learnt... And I am happy to see that one more newbiediver learnt from my post Thank you Rod.

 

[buton]

that was so irresponsable, even if they are "MASTER" scuba divers that does not give them the right to do what they did to you...even if they said " i have been doing this for 20 years" it does not mean they were doing it right!!!

 

[k ellis]

So, I am right to be feeling that I am not the only one who should be embarrased by this incident? One thing I am happy about though is the way I was taught the basic skills by the first instructor I had (Not D2). I was never insecure about the prosedures and I never felt panicked. I even lowered my airconsumptionrate for the last part of the dive.
I have had a couple of dives with this first instructor after this, and we have had a run through of the story.

You should not feel embarrassed by any means. It was at no fault of your own. There is a reason why instructors tell you after completing the course that you should only dive with in your training and experience level. This guy just tried to show boat and it could have turned for the worst.

The one thing every experienced diver will tell you is you never stop learning. If its your first dive or you 100,000 dive you always have the potential to experience something new and outside of your comfort and experience level. You just dont go trying to learn everything when you are just starting out. You hould concentrate on learning the fundamentals and getting it down to an art like driving a car.

Just always remember there is a cardinal rule of life in general that applies to diving. no matter what happens to you always trust your instincts and always calm down, relax and think things through. With this statement in mind it does sound like you did well by doing this.

 

[Hatul]

If I read the story correctly, your buddy is a moron, or commonly referred to in scuba circles as a "stroke". And the rule is, once you know someone is like that you don't dive with him again.

Adam

 

[fisheater]

In addition to all the scorn rightfully heaped upon your supposed "dive buddy", I just want to add that you always carry and should learn how to deploy a SMB with at least a finger spool. That way, when you need to surface, buddy or no buddy, you can do so safely.


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[Imla]

In addition to all the scorn rightfully heaped upon your supposed "dive buddy", I just want to add that you always carry and should learn how to deploy a SMB with at least a finger spool. That way, when you need to surface, buddy or no buddy, you can do so safely.


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Thanx for the tip. This has been on my "to do list" for a while now. Reason I have not done so yet is that I encountered som challenges with switching from neoprene drysuit with just thin undergarments, to HDTech Trilam, with Super Hi-Loft. So... I've been practising my buoyancy over and over and over.... and you get the picture. One thing at the time and I figured buoyancy was the most important.
Luckily I have found a couple of fantastic buddies. They are still very experienced, but they are superpatient, and have said from the start that it is MY dive, because I'm the least experienced.

 

[Imla]

You should not feel embarrassed by any means. It was at no fault of your own. There is a reason why instructors tell you after completing the course that you should only dive with in your training and experience level. This guy just tried to show boat and it could have turned for the worst.

THank you for the kind words, however I will still keep a little bit of embarrassment as a reminder. I do agree that it was ultimately my responsibility... (But it feels good to know I was not the only one who dropped the ball)

 

[UnderSeaBumbleBee]

When your buddy says it is time to go up or indicates trouble, the dive is over. Anyone who does not respect that should not be your buddy. He planned to school you in a particular thing and lucky for you it turned out ok. But what if you have been having other problems, and he was intent on teaching you this one lesson? What if you had panicked? When you do drills or other emergency practice procedures, you should both plan ahead and agree to do them. That way if one happens for real, you won't think, ok he is just doing a drill again and really doesn't need my help.

I would never dive with this guy again. Find someone who is a good mentor and willing to help your learn. Stay away from people who have the attitude that I am going to teach you a thing or two whether you like it or not.

 

[N2DeepInAz]

That would be my absolute last dive with that person. Whenever I dive in a group, we repeatedly state that the first person to a half tank turns the dive, no exceptions, period! To continue a dive when someone is dangerously close to being OOA is just plain stupid!