From Rodales (Manufacturer response - Diver's Union - TUSA and Aqualung!)

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Genesis, the reason I suggested the experiment of putting your ideas into practice was not merely to pull your chain. Maybe part of the reason, but not the primary motivation. My thought is that your petition will never generate enough oomph to have any effect on the targeted manufacturers. As you have mentioned, they make their decisions based on what they believe is best for their own bottom lines. There is little likelihood that a large enough number of potential customers is going to join your movement to actually affect their profits. They can safely ignore you, because you're not hurting them.

What would alarm them? A competitor who starts taking their business. Which brings me to the experiment outlined above. If the free trade distribution model is superior, it will prevail in the marketplace.
 
The existance of ANYONE on the "good list" is enough to set them off.

I've had a number of interesting phone calls from the manufacturers who have seen the appearance of a few firms on the "good list".

"Alarmed" would be a good description of their response in general. One was VERY unhappy when they asked me to cancel faxing to them, and I explained that I was happy to - but that the system would inform any consumer who signed after that point that they had refused their transmission! That really got their attention, and they dropped their request.

If they thought this was "insignificant" they would have simply given the petition the finger, without regard to the fact that future signers would be told they didn't care what their potential customers think.

There is a WIDE diversity of opinion among the targets of the faxed petitions. There are a couple of firms who are dead-set against changing this, a couple who I believe have been pressured by their dealers to adopt the policy (collusively, which, by the way, has its own set of issues - which is EXACTLY why part of the "remedy" part for consumers is to go to places like LP, DiveInn, etc) and a couple who simply haven't made up their minds on which way is best for them.

There is an old saying that one pissed off customer tells 10 of his friends, while a happy customer tells one.

The Internet makes that "10" more like "100". So in terms of actual "impact", those in the executive suite have to figure the "impact" of this as numbering into the thousands to ten thousand or so - thus far.

In an industry that have shrinking sales volume, this is not an insignificant thing.

Consider that without the volume that LP does in some of these products some of these manufacturers would be bankrupt. LP sells more gear, all on its own, than most of the MANUFACTURERS.

There are a number of manufacturers that, over the last few years, have remained in business EXPLICITLY because LP exists.

BTW, ~400 signatures on a previous petition to a major manufacturer in a completely different industry resulted in near-immediate response and a public statement of and change in policy. This was a consumer products manufacturer who has customer counts in the tens of millions in the US alone. All it takes is a perception that a "sea change" is forthcoming among consumers in the executive suite. NOBODY wants to get caught behind that curve.

As for setting up an equipment manufacturer, anything is possible. Believe me when I tell 'ya that the entrepreneur in me never dismisses a good business opportunity out-of-hand.
 
Genesis once bubbled...
As for setting up an equipment manufacturer, anything is possible. Believe me when I tell 'ya that the entrepreneur in me never dismisses a good business opportunity out-of-hand.

So go for it. It sounds like more fun than selling air fills. You probably can't use the name "Genesis" for your company, though, since there is that dive computer out there with the same name.
 
Genesis once bubbled...


I would have refused.

My labor is not free. Nor is it "included" in the authorization to sell a product.

This is something I negotiated all the time in my former line of work, and while I had manufacturers try to shove this kind of agreement down my throat, I never accepted it - nor would I.

Your car dealer doesn't put up with this; they get paid off the flat-rate book for warranty repairs.

You shouldn't put up with it either.

I don't put up with it. I include it as a service to MY customers. IF someone buys equipment from me then I will go the extra mile to make sure they are taken care of, within reason. Yes, I have done warranty repairs on regulators without charging because these are MY customers and friends. I have even cut a service bill on occasion just because someone has been a loyal customer and comes by to have a cup of coffee and shoot the breeze. Be a loyal customer to me and I'll be loyal to you. If you choose not to be, that's fine also. We can keep it strictly on a business basis, which I'll make more money on.
 
If you're carrying some manufacturer's line for them, YOU ARE DOING THEM A FAVOR, NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND!

Now explain this one to me:

They send you junk.
You sell it, thinking its good, rather than junk.
Your CUSTOMER, who you sold junk to, comes back pissed off becuase you sold him junk.
You fix the junk, and make it good.

Cool, so far.

HOWEVER, the manufacturer who sold YOU the junk is the one who ought to be eating that work. The warranty wasn't issued by your shop - it was issued by the MANUFACTURER.

YOU relied on it when you sold it, and the CUSTOMER relied on it when he bought it!

For the manufacturer to shove this off on YOU is WRONG.

Any manufacturer who doesn't understand this doesn't deserve to be in business.

They get away with it only because you let them.
 
Wouldn't it be so cool if Genesis could put his money where his mouth is.

Hey, Genius, oops... I mean, Genesis, a bunch of us are getting together at Dutch Springs. Why don't you bring a portable Nitrox compressor and try to out price them.

Also bring some stickers. We might need kindling.

While you're at it, bring some of your other stickers from your other campaigns. They might burn better.
 
Northeastwrecks once bubbled...
Wouldn't it be so cool if Genesis could put his money where his mouth is.

Hey, Genius, oops... I mean, Genesis, a bunch of us are getting together at Dutch Springs. Why don't you bring a portable Nitrox compressor and try to out price them.

Also bring some stickers. We might need kindling.

While you're at it, bring some of your other stickers from your other campaigns. They might burn better.

Is this post really needed? This thread was informative and intelligent, regardless of which side a person is one in this matter.

All you do by posting something as childish as this is discredit yourself and your opinion. This certainly doesn't help your side of the debate.

Darryl
 
dvleemin once bubbled...


Is this post really needed? This thread was informative and intelligent, regardless of which side a person is one in this matter.

I respectfully disagree.

Besides, I'd truly like to see our little man show up and prove his case. Given the charges that Dutch Springs places on Nitrox fills, this should not be difficult.
 
Northeastwrecks once bubbled...


I respectfully disagree.

Besides, I'd truly like to see our little man show up and prove his case. Given the charges that Dutch Springs places on Nitrox fills, this should not be difficult.

Telling him to put his money where his mouth is is one thing; The comments about 'Genius' and buring his stickers is something completely different. Unnecessary and childish.

Darryl
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/perdix-ai/

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