H2O Odyssey Spare Air

[PugetDiver]

If the reserve parachute is of the size of 1 square meter, but of course.

On Average:
6CF H2Odyssey will get you up safely from < 100 feet
3CF Spare air will get you up safely from <70 feet


Most people dive above the 100 foot range and many of those dive above the 70 foot range. Aquaren i understand that for you 250' isn't out of the equation. I would not recommend the H2Odyssey for you. For the rest of us, why not have the extra insurance? How much would you pay for that extra 3 or 6 CF of air in an OOA?

 

[pete v]

Even with the danger of repeating myself or the words of other:
Running out of air shows of poor dive planning and gas managment.
Diving too far from your buddy so you can't reach him on emergencies or diving with someone that doesn't know where you are and what you are doing shows of poor buddy and situational awareness. The same is true for allowing your buddy to run out of air.
The best way of avoiding a dangerous situation is not to allow it to get so far. Know your limits and don't try to go over them without the appropriate training.
The spare air is a crutch to compensate for avoidable mistakes and lack of skills like dive planning and awareness.
With more high quality training and experience you'll realize that a spare air as as usfull as a pimple on your nose.
Sorry if it was too harsh

hey there everyone i hate to beat a dead horse but i am doing the same thing that grilla was doing. i am a new diver and i am looking for options for a redundent air supply. with all do respect i am quite supprised at some of the replys to this divers question, after all this a forum for scuba divers to ask scuba questions, no matter how stupid or ridiculous or what ever you want to call it, this is a question about saftey which is paramount in diving and i think the question is very valid. a less experenced dive asking a question to divers with more experence! this is not all directed towards aquaoren but towards some of the responces to this thread. some have been helpfull and some have been down right rude, ok off my little pedestal.

the reason that i am looking for the alt air source is not only gas mismanagement but unforsceen issues such as-ring failure at the 1 stage, free flow reg, stuck pressure gauge showing inncorrect psi, rupture of tank o-ring, bc inflator stuck in open postion, etc etc...... yes alot of these are preventable the key word is "preventable" not "eliminate" with care and maintence and we can what if this to death, but sh*& happens and thats why we call them "unforeseen circumstances" and dead is dead so a ounce of prevention is worth that pound of cure when your down under. thanks fir reading this. p

 

[aquaoren]

http://www.scubaboard.com/showthread.php?t=97116

 

[grilla]

Glad to see there are some others out there with the same intent and logic as mine. I've made 2 mistakes - first - whenever you talk about the concept don't make the same mistake I did way back in the thread when I was using the terms "spare air" and "pony" or "redundant air system" interchangeably. Obviously this lead to confusion and thanks again to 3dent for pointing this out. "Spare Air" is a brand name for a specific item and while, arguably, it may still provide a very limited backup air supply I think most of us would agree it's not much bang for the buck and anyone considering it might want to strongly consider some sort of a system with a much larger capacity. For several reasons I went with 13 cu ft. Some suggested larger but 13 was the right choice for me. I'm also satisfied in knowing that if I want to upgrade to a higher capacity its easily done and there is an ample marker out there for a used 13 cu ft cylinder.

The second mistake I made was getting sucked in by the dark side and engaging in a pissing contest with a bonehead or two here on the SB. Like they say in the south - it's like wrestling a pig in the mud - you both get filthy but only the pig enjoys it. I have to say there is a lot less "trolling" and negative attitudes here than on other diving forums. Unfortunately, I didn't do my part to maintain that. Lesson learned and thanks to Pete V for pointing that out.

If anybody else goes for a pony I'd like to know what you got, how you carry it, what worked, what didn't, etc.

See ya'

 

[pete v]

Glad to see there are some others out there with the same intent and logic as mine. I've made 2 mistakes - first - whenever you talk about the concept don't make the same mistake I did way back in the thread when I was using the terms "spare air" and "pony" or "redundant air system" interchangeably. Obviously this lead to confusion and thanks again to 3dent for pointing this out. "Spare Air" is a brand name for a specific item and while, arguably, it may still provide a very limited backup air supply I think most of us would agree it's not much bang for the buck and anyone considering it might want to strongly consider some sort of a system with a much larger capacity. For several reasons I went with 13 cu ft. Some suggested larger but 13 was the right choice for me. I'm also satisfied in knowing that if I want to upgrade to a higher capacity its easily done and there is an ample marker out there for a used 13 cu ft cylinder.

The second mistake I made was getting sucked in by the dark side and engaging in a pissing contest with a bonehead or two here on the SB. Like they say in the south - it's like wrestling a pig in the mud - you both get filthy but only the pig enjoys it. I have to say there is a lot less "trolling" and negative attitudes here than on other diving forums. Unfortunately, I didn't do my part to maintain that. Lesson learned and thanks to Pete V for pointing that out.

If anybody else goes for a pony I'd like to know what you got, how you carry it, what worked, what didn't, etc.

See ya'

no problem i am looking at a 13cft or a 19 cft bottle myself ill let you know what i do

 

[Mandy3206]

I've been diving with a 3cf Spare Air for 8 yrs now and find it a very neat, easy to carry package with a few extra breaths in case I need them.
So far I haven't need it to bail out but have done my share of testing over the yrs just to make sure what to expect from it in case I need it due to unforseen circumstances.

I can ascend easily fron 60 ft, but forget about the safety stop, since I dive NDLs, the safety stop can be skipped if you need to, but not recomended at all.

I find the service to these units a bit dificult and not readily available everywhere as oposed to a regular SCUBA tank and regulator.

All in all, I'll be upgrading very soon to a 19 cf pony and use my old Micra as it's regulator.

Does SA gives a bang for the buck? I would say yes if you stay above 70ft and inside NDLs.

This unit has served me well for many yrs, but it's time to upgrade.

I've nothing bad to say about SA, it served it's purpose and it's definetely better than an octo alone.

 

[PerroneFord]

the reason that i am looking for the alt air source is not only gas mismanagement but unforsceen issues such as-ring failure at the 1 stage, free flow reg, stuck pressure gauge showing inncorrect psi, rupture of tank o-ring, bc inflator stuck in open postion, etc etc...... yes alot of these are preventable the key word is "preventable" not "eliminate" with care and maintence and we can what if this to death, but sh*& happens and thats why we call them "unforeseen circumstances" and dead is dead so a ounce of prevention is worth that pound of cure when your down under. thanks fir reading this. p

Ok,

I'm about to step into a hole here.. I know it. But here we go...

I think the exerienced divers are saying that with proper planning, and use of time tested principles of diving, the pony bottle is superflous. It's one more thing to have to manage, practice, and another failure point. So let's look at common principles of diving related to what you just said:

1. First stage o-ring failure. Use a DIN fitting. But even with a yoke, it seems that most issues I've heard of occur when the regs are pressurized on the surface, not during the dive. If you have a catastrophic failure, you should be surfacing anyway. And if you can't surface immediately (overhead restriction, mandatory deco stops, you are out of the realm of NDL recreational diving, and you should be using redundant back gas. Not a bailout bottle.

2. Free-flow regs can be breathed off of. I had to do it in openwater cert. Practice this by keeping the purge pressed and breathing. If it's a second stage issue, switch to your backup reg. This should give you enough time to track down your buddy and share air.

3. Stuck pressure guage. If you check your air every 5 minutes or so, as should be common, you'd know if it was stuck. If you've been down 50 minutes and your pressure guage still reads 2800#, you've put yourself in an awkward position. Turn the dive. do your safety stop if you can, and surface with your buddy.

4. BC inflator stuck. Disconnect it.

5. Tank O-Ring failure. This is a slow leak issue isn't it? Surface after a safety stop.


In a basic openwater dive, there is nothing that should prevent you from coming to the surface immediately if you have to. Once you drop below recreational depths, you had better keep your buddy close, and be on the same page. And if you start diving deep or go into overheads, you need to be fully redundant AND have a well trained partner.

The recurring themes I keep reading in these stories of incidents, are either diver is out there alone, buddy is unaware of problem or has "lost" their partner, diver paniced in what should be a manageable situation, or a surface problem arose and was ignored.

For most people 80cuft is 60 minutes worth of air. A 6cuft pony is 8 minutes max if things all go well. if you are in an environment where you should not be (overhead, lost buddy, lost anchor, etc.) it will be more like 4-5 minutes with your increased breathing rate. Maybe that's enough. Maybe not.

I just hate to see the bailout bottle become an excuse for not practicing safe diving habits, or worse, not working with your diving buddies as a team.

 

[mike_s]

What I think is funny about the Spare-air product is that they make a "Nitrox" version of it now. heh. too funny.

 

[Mandy3206]

Ok,

I'm about to step into a hole here.. I know it. But here we go...

I think the exerienced divers are saying that with proper planning, and use of time tested principles of diving, the pony bottle is superflous. It's one more thing to have to manage, practice, and another failure point. So let's look at common principles of diving related to what you just said:

1. First stage o-ring failure. Use a DIN fitting. But even with a yoke, it seems that most issues I've heard of occur when the regs are pressurized on the surface, not during the dive. If you have a catastrophic failure, you should be surfacing anyway. And if you can't surface immediately (overhead restriction, mandatory deco stops, you are out of the realm of NDL recreational diving, and you should be using redundant back gas. Not a bailout bottle.

2. Free-flow regs can be breathed off of. I had to do it in openwater cert. Practice this by keeping the purge pressed and breathing. If it's a second stage issue, switch to your backup reg. This should give you enough time to track down your buddy and share air.

3. Stuck pressure guage. If you check your air every 5 minutes or so, as should be common, you'd know if it was stuck. If you've been down 50 minutes and your pressure guage still reads 2800#, you've put yourself in an awkward position. Turn the dive. do your safety stop if you can, and surface with your buddy.

4. BC inflator stuck. Disconnect it.

5. Tank O-Ring failure. This is a slow leak issue isn't it? Surface after a safety stop.


In a basic openwater dive, there is nothing that should prevent you from coming to the surface immediately if you have to. Once you drop below recreational depths, you had better keep your buddy close, and be on the same page. And if you start diving deep or go into overheads, you need to be fully redundant AND have a well trained partner.

The recurring themes I keep reading in these stories of incidents, are either diver is out there alone, buddy is unaware of problem or has "lost" their partner, diver paniced in what should be a manageable situation, or a surface problem arose and was ignored.

For most people 80cuft is 60 minutes worth of air. A 6cuft pony is 8 minutes max if things all go well. if you are in an environment where you should not be (overhead, lost buddy, lost anchor, etc.) it will be more like 4-5 minutes with your increased breathing rate. Maybe that's enough. Maybe not.

I just hate to see the bailout bottle become an excuse for not practicing safe diving habits, or worse, not working with your diving buddies as a team.

PerroneFord, I've to respecfully disagre with some of your coments:

1)The ponybottle, SA, H2O concept is not superfluous, when murphy strikes, it's
allways when you can get boned, so self rescue is the best approach to everything in life. It's better to ascend calmly than to rush to the surface in an emergency ascent, just make sure you don't dive to 130ft with a SA and think that it will save you, if you do, just be aware and prepare yourself mentaly for the last leg of the ascent will be an emergency ascent.
If you're going to 130ft, get the apropiate redundant air source, it all comes down to using the right equipment for the dive and not exceed those limits.

2) 80cf last me 60 min in less than 35 fsw, but I rarely dive that shallow, I dive most of my dives between 65 fsw and 110 fsw with an average dive duration from 25 min and 45 min depending on the dive profile.

3) A bail out bottle is allways a good idea, no matter if you dive by the book and never exceed your limits, as for buddies, I personally don't rely on a buddy to help me out, if he can help, good, but I don't rely on them to save my life.

 

[Mandy3206]

What I think is funny about the Spare-air product is that they make a "Nitrox" version of it now. heh. too funny.

I concur with you 100%, it's just a sales gimmick to trap some flies into buying the product.