StreetDoctor
Contributor
There's no way a 12w LED is brighter or has the punch of a 18w HID... just not happening. LED's just aren't there yet.
Halcyon Lights
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I'll just say I have yet to see any production LEDs that even come close, given the same power usage. Even production 21w LEDs are barely holding up with HIDs. But there are some DIY/enthusiast lights using high-binned parts that look mindblowing (but again, you're going to need a lot more than 12w to outshine a 21w HID, and good luck getting a tighter hotspot.
_Remko_
Registered
The 10W ATON LED does come remarkably close and I expect the ATON II to be similar or better. However I really don't think the Halcyon 12W LED will come near, would love to see some in water comparison
ATON LED comparison test for those who havn't seen it yet:
YouTube - lighting test aton dutchdivinglights
The only picture I have right now is a side by side above water (Note the LED on the right is on FULL power):
The next picture is the side by side comparison, however the LED is on HALF power:
I'll probably get belittled because the camera over exposed a little bit but it's the best I can do right now. Sorry :/
However, in water I have had my buddy and I wear one of each type and...at least at distances 10' and closer is was considerably brighter. Since I just got it a few months ago, I need to see if it has the punch at distance so I cannot confirm or deny that.
Seriously though, please relax guys. It was just a suggestion and opinion. I've used an 18W halcyon a lot and it works great. It was only a suggestion for something to look into as a different option. My intent was not to come here and make it sound like an HID is bad. It's awesome as well. If it came off like that, I apologize.
"I have used the 18W light as well. They're both excellent lights. You can't go wrong with either."
Your Results May Vary
Jim
Sdiver2489
Registered
Thanks for the laugh Jim...just proves facts>random opinion
Jim, thanks for the images!
Not so fast on this one. If you look at Halcyon's site, they compare the EOS to a 10w HID, and rate the LED's light output at 600 lumen, also comparable to a 10w (500-600 lumen across the industry).
Eos LED Primary Lights | Halcyon Dive Systems
A Halcyon (or Sartek or Salvo) 18- or 21w HID will output closer to 1600 lumen.
Also, the triple-emitter design is well-tested and in no other product comes close to outspotting a focused HID (even single-emitter LEDs don't yet do that). Halcyon even says this outright, while also conceding that LEDs are not brighter than HIDs: "However, HID lights are much brighter than current LED configurations. This is because the side-emitting light found with HIDs is much easier to focus; the front-emitting nature of LEDs does not lend itself to a tightly focused beam. HID lighting is still preferred by most divers given the superior intensity and tight focus."
About HID & LED | Halcyon Dive Systems
Seeing these pictures, I think the clear question to ask is whether there isn't some extreme deficiency with the HID (or extreme aging of the lamp; as the lamp gets old, the capsule clouds up and will lose brightness, particularly in the blue end of the spectrum, the photos may show that here).
Btw, I have a Halcyon light, and it's neither an 18w nor an LED. I completely don't mind whether one is brighter than the other (and I COMPLETELY don't care if someone prefers one over the other), but facts are facts, and I know for one reason or another the pictures provided don't jive with them!
Not so fast on this one. If you look at Halcyon's site, they compare the EOS to a 10w HID, and rate the LED's light output at 600 lumen, also comparable to a 10w (500-600 lumen across the industry).
Eos LED Primary Lights | Halcyon Dive Systems
A Halcyon (or Sartek or Salvo) 18- or 21w HID will output closer to 1600 lumen.
Also, the triple-emitter design is well-tested and in no other product comes close to outspotting a focused HID (even single-emitter LEDs don't yet do that). Halcyon even says this outright, while also conceding that LEDs are not brighter than HIDs: "However, HID lights are much brighter than current LED configurations. This is because the side-emitting light found with HIDs is much easier to focus; the front-emitting nature of LEDs does not lend itself to a tightly focused beam. HID lighting is still preferred by most divers given the superior intensity and tight focus."
About HID & LED | Halcyon Dive Systems
Seeing these pictures, I think the clear question to ask is whether there isn't some extreme deficiency with the HID (or extreme aging of the lamp; as the lamp gets old, the capsule clouds up and will lose brightness, particularly in the blue end of the spectrum, the photos may show that here).
Btw, I have a Halcyon light, and it's neither an 18w nor an LED. I completely don't mind whether one is brighter than the other (and I COMPLETELY don't care if someone prefers one over the other), but facts are facts, and I know for one reason or another the pictures provided don't jive with them!
StreetDoctor
Contributor
Didn't mean to sound like I was jumping down your throat Jim. From what I've found from diving with people with LED's is for our local waters they don't have anywhere near the "punch" and beam tightness of the HID which is what's really important to me. They look great on the surface but under water it's a different story. Now if you're diving somewhere with great visibility your results may vary.
You may want to try one if you get the opportunity. If you're an engineer like me, look at the glass covering for the LED system. The lenses they've carved in there are pretty awesome. Talking to one of my friends who is close with the Halcyon bunch, they spent a lot of time getting that lens just right. I'll check on the punch power next time I'm at the quarry at the end of the month but the beam tightness is quite impressive. I'll have my video camera with me too I'm sure so I'll do my best to get a side by side comparison just for future reference for people who stroll the boards.
-Jim
P.S. You would probably be rediculously cool if your backup light for your 18W HID was a cannister LED light lol.
I'll check on the punch power next time I'm at the quarry at the end of the month but the beam tightness is quite impressive. I'll have my video camera with me too I'm sure so I'll do my best to get a side by side comparison just for future reference for people who stroll the boards.
Jim, if you have access to a different 18w or a Brightstar-ballast 21w (any Halcyon, Sartek, Salvo or Light Monkey), it'd be very helpful to include that in the comparison. I'm absolutely certain that the HID in your pictures was seriously compromised.
The only picture I have right now is a side by side above water (Note the LED on the right is on FULL power):
The next picture is the side by side comparison, however the LED is on HALF power:
Great comparison...
If you're diving in a movie theater.
The reflective nature of movie screen is going to make the bluer light of an LED pop more than a non-reflective surface, especially on a reciprocal angle to the camera.
Secondly, do you know why the HID got brighter in the second picture? I do. (Same reason your camera artificially favors the LED.)
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