Helium and Equipment

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scubabunny

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The dive shop I work at is going to start TriMix fills next month. I do not do TriMix (yet :wink: ) so I'm not real familiar with it.

I know you have to O2 clean equipment for Nitrox fills using a PP system..regardless of the percentage. But, is there any cleaning needed for He?

I'm sure our repair people will fill me in on this...but I'm here now, and I probably won't remember to ask them next week. The Heliox thread just got me wondering.

Thanks!
 
Short version:

Nothing special needed for helium. It is safer and much less corrosive than air.

The oxygen precautions which have been, er, 'discussed' at great length on other threads apply to any part of the system exposed to unblended oxygen like tank valves may be, depending on the blending technique.

So if the blending is with only helium and air--nothing special.
If blending sometimes involves added oxygen, oxygen clean tank valve but not regulator.

What you do with the chicken is up to you.
 
It should be noted that mixing helium and air creates a
HYPO-oxic (less than 21% O2) mix, aka "Heli-AIR". Depending
on how much He you are using you can create a mix that
is not very healthy at shallow-depths and thus *necessitate*
some sort of travel gas.

O2, He, and AIR create TRI-mix.

O2 and He create Heli-Ox (which can be problematic at
great depth)

Ah, such a FASCINATING subject :)
 
Ok...so Trimix is made from regular air and He. No oxygen involved. I didn't realize that. Heliox is when there is pure oxygen going into the tank..or do they put pure He in first?

I just wasn't sure (working in retail) if the He involved anything different. Thanks for the info!

and...you can keep the chicken (more of a steak person myself! :wink: )
 
incorrect, It depends on the required O2 %, if you wanted a 50% He fills the best O2 you would be capable of is 10.5% with an air top off, for low He content mixes Air top offs are ok, but to have a High He mix and have a mix thats breathable at the surface you need to add 100% oxygen. (or have a premix nitrox bank that can be used to top off) It will be more work to mix a specific O2%, you'll have to do the calculations by hand.. I don't know of any program that will allow you to use nitrox and oxygen for top off.

BTW the above mix is not breathable to about 20ft/6M with no exertion.
 
Here's the way it works...
Let's say you want to make a dive to 165'.
You want to keep your oxygen exposure to 1.4ATM or less and your Nitrogen exposure to 80' FSW or less.
And you want to be able to breathe the gas at the surface.
The numbers are below - what they say is that in tanks that you're filling to 2640 PSI you mix 830 psi of He with 1810 psi of EAN34 to get the results you want.
Rick

Desired PO2 Max 1.4 PEANx 4.1
Desired Max EADn 80.0 PN2 2.7
Depth of dive 165.0 Total P 6.0
Phe 1.9
Mix: EANx preHe 34.1
O2 23.3 616.0 ODmin -3.3
N2 45.1 1190.3 1.6 PO2 193.3
He 31.6 833.7

Tank fill pressure 2640.0
Nitrox fill to 1806.3
or He fill to 833.7


EANx premix PreHe 34.0 1811.8
Desired PO2max 1.4 pP
O2 23.3 616.0
N2 45.3 1195.8
He 31.4 828.2
EADn 80.5
 
There are other methods than just partial pressure blending. You can continuous blend with the right setup. Much easier, quicker and cheaper.

omar
 
Originally posted by watergal
Nothing special needed for helium. It is safer and much less corrosive than air.
Quite the understatement! Not only is He less corrosive than air, He is completely non-corrosive! He is an inert gas, and as such, doesn’t react with anything (chemistry geeks, let it slide :))

This is why if you take a Nitrox mixing class, it would take all of 15 minutes more (if that) to cover mixing helium. They’d talk about real gasses a little, give you a bunch of formulas and then, after all that, conclude “just use a fudge factor and be done with it.” The biggest part of any mixing class is O2 handling. Handling an inert gas after learning to handle O2 is a non-issue.

A separate mixing class for Trimix is one of the more transparent money making schemes proffered by the training agencies. This is why a number of us were very surprised when 1-800-PAY-PADI :) offered one mixing class that covered both Nitrox and Trimix! (http://www.scubaboard.com/t4727/s.html).

Scubabunny,

Let me try and draw all the terms that others defined above in one reply and see if it helps:

First to liken Trimix and Heliox to Nitrox:

Nitrox is ANY mix of Oxygen and Nitrogen only. “Air” is a subset of Nitrox, which is 21% Nitrox. So technically, if you walk into any shop and ask if they pump Nitrox, all should say “yes” though many would only offer EAN21 :). Colloquially, “Nitrox” is any Oxygen/Nitrogen mix GREATER than 21% O2.

Heliox is ANY mixture of Oxygen and Helium only, just like Nitrox is any mixture of Oxygen and Nitrogen only. Heliox’s big problem is getting fills. Because Helium comes in bulk cylinders typically at 2400 PSI, you have to boost or “lift” the Helium to get a complete fill (http://www.haskel.com/). Commercial boosters are big bucks. The higher the PSI you need to lift the gas, the more difficult and the slower it is, which is one reason why LP cylinders are so popular in the technical arena. At depths over 500 feet HPNS becomes an issue with Heliox, but I don’t think you’re planning on going there yet. :)

Trimix is ANY mixture of Oxygen, Helium and Nitrogen only. If you add He to an empty cylinder and then “blow” air on top you get Heliair, which is a subset of Trimix, though Heliair is a range of mixes, all that have an O2 content less than 21%. Heliair is not used very often, because by the time you add enough He in order to keep your Nitrogen Narcosis to a reasonable level, your mix becomes hypoxic at the surface. That means you have to deal with travel mixes and gas switches and therefore task loading to get to a depth where you can breathe your back gas without passing out. It’s hard to enjoy a dive when all your focus is on staying alive.

Because Heliair uses no pure O2, there’s no need for your cylinder and valve to be O2 clean.

But “Trimix” in the colloquial sense refers to an O2/He/N2 mix other than Heliair, just like Nitrox usually refers to an O2/N2 mix other than air. So colloquial Trimix is the result of (we’ll make it simple) adding O2 to an empty cylinder, adding He on top of the O2 (at this point you have some Heliox mixture) and then blowing air on top of that mix (where the Nitrogen and some more Oxygen comes from). This requires the same O2 procedures that are required for Nitrox.

Note that by saying the same, I mean exactly the same. If a shop partial pressure mixes Nitrox, they’ll PP mix Trimix and your cylinder and valve should be reasonably O2 clean. If they have a membrane system, you may be able to build your mixes from membrane Nitrox without the need for O2 cleaning. For instance, filling a cylinder to 40% with He and then blowing 32% Nitrox on top results in a nice mix for 200 feet.

The above mix would be called “19/40/41” (O2/He/N2) or more typically just referred to as “19/40”. This mix would have an O2 PP of 1.35 and an Equivalent Nitrogen Depth (END) of less than 100 feet. So your O2 exposure is fine and you’re as clear headed as you’d be at 100 feet.

Wow, I’m way off subject. I hope this pulls together the relationship between Heliox, Trimix and Heliair.

Roak
 
Roak,
It did for me.
Nice post!!
Mike D
 
Thanks miked.

One other subset of Trimix I failed to mention. "Normoxic Trimix." This is actually a range of mixes but where all mixes have an O2 content the same as air, or 21%.

So bracketing the Normoxic Trimix spectrum you have air, which isn’t Trimix because it doesn’t have any Helium in it and 21% Heliox, which isn’t Trimix because it doesn’t have any Nitrogen in it.

In terms of O2 exposure, 21% O2 has a MOD of 218 feet, with a working depth of 187 feet. Because with Normoxic Trimix your O2 percentage is fixed at 21, the only variable is how narked you are. :) If you wanted a blend that would give you an END of 100 feet at the maximum WD of 187, you’d want your mix to be only 48% N2, so the rest (100 - 48 – 21 = 31%) would have to be He.

So off the top of my head a reasonable all-purpose Normoxic Trimix would be 21/31. Even if you have to descend to 218 for some exceptional reason this would give you an END of only 120’, which though not optimal, is still quite acceptable.

Roak
 
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