Help on using IP Gauge to test reg

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If the reg in the video with a slow lockup had drift, what is creep then?

drift will eventually lock up. creep will not.
That reg will drift from 125 to 145psi and then stay there. No leaks, no continued creep.

If the reg was creeping, it would continue to creep until something relieved the pressure and never lock. With my regs, that is about 250psi when the first stage or hose OPV goes. In "normal" regulators that will be whatever pressure causes it to start leaking which is typically 15-20psi above whatever it was set for..
 
Does the final lockup IP vs "correct" IP matter?

Let's say my reg locks up at 125psi after service and break-in. Then a year later it goes to 125 quickly with a slow increase to 135 before stopping.

Is that still drift?
 
Does the final lockup IP vs "correct" IP matter?

What if my reg locks up at 125psi after service and break-in. Then a year later it goes to 125 quickly with a slow increase to 135.

Is that still drift?

still drift. Reg IP will actually climb a bit during the first few hundred cycles. The reg in that video was initially set to 125, and when I pressurized it for the video it had gone through a few hundred cycles and was responding at 135psi so I turned it down. If it locks, it should stay locked. That reg has drifted since I rebuilt it which means I need to polish the bullet so it seals better. Quick fix, just have to take it apart which I haven't gotten around to yet and needed them for diving. Drift isn't in my opinion a problem so long as it doesn't leak once it locks up. You will not see IP drift with most regs from my experience though others may differ. They pretty much lock up hard or they creep. Poseidon uses a very unique design in their first stages which is part of why they will drift then lock up.
 
tbone.. I also have a two 3790 1st stages that both "drift" up to ~145psi after having both been rebuilt. I was assuming that I had somehow not gotten the plastic hp seats to bed in properly with first subjected to low tank pressure.

Sounds like you have had some success polishing the "bullet".. I assume you are talking about the metal cone shaped part that rests against the plastic HP seat? I think the Poseidon manual calls it a "valve piston".

Could you describe a little better how you polish this? and maybe why you suppose it drifts?
 
@Caveeagle basically take some 4000grit micro-mesh and polish it. Microscratches on that bullet can cause a bit of air to be able to get through and the higher pressure will eventually cause it to stop. At least that was what was explained to me by a bunch of old time Poseidon techs. I'm not a piston guy, but believe that pistons can exhibit similar behavior. @herman and or @DA Aquamaster can verify that one
 
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That may have been my post from awhile back:
Dressing a metal orifice

In any case, a few comments are in order. While drift and creep as defined by posters above are accurate descriptions, manufacturers think of them both as creep, and only a few accept any creep at all. Those that do, generally expect lockup within 60 sec.
But the origin of the phenomenon is identical: air leakage past an o-ring pressing up against an imperfection in the sealing surface. Either the o-ring seals (drift), or it doesn't (creep).
"Drift" turns into lockup when the o-ring (in its static position) deforms enough to fill the scratch or imperfection. If it doesn't, the reg continues to "creep."
While the comment that "the IP resets itself with each breath" is accurate, the bigger problem is a reg with creep that sits pressurized for an hour's boat ride out to a dive site, and blows a high pressure seal just as you arrive, because the IP has gotten so high.
I'm surprised no one has referenced couv's checklist, so I'll do it here:
Regulator Inspection and Checklist (Rev-7)

So to answer the question of "which" IP you use when looking at the manufacturer's specification, it is the lockup value, whether that occurs immediately, in a few minutes, or 12 hours later. And yes, when I have a reg with "drift", I leave it on a tank overnight. If the lockup IP the next morning exceeds manufacturer spec, then a knife edge or piston shaft may need polishing. But if you can't get it within spec, you need to consider whether or not the reg should be dived.
Assuming you can get it to max IP within spec, if there's what's been called drift, then your working IP is the instantaneous IP that the second stage sees between breaths. Not such a big deal for a balanced second, but for a downstream valve you have a problem.
If you tune for an instant IP of 130, the second stage will probably freeflow when the reg is unattended and drifts to 145. If you tune for 145, then a downstream second may breathe much harder at 130.

This is the conundrum we all face when using old gear. Little of the drift described above is permissible with most manufacturers. Atomic allows drift over an unspecified time from 125 to the max IP of 145. Scubapro allows 8 psi over 45 sec per Rene Dupre, tho that's not in the manual. Etc, etc. But many DIY'ers dive gear that drifts or creeps and at some point there is a hazard. It's unlikely that a seal will blow from excessive creep during a dive, because each breath resets the process. But losing a seal when the reg is pressurized but not being used is a much more likely occurrence. Did you bring a spare reg set on the boat? And if you are diving a reg with drift, how did you tune your second stage?

For me, there's enough inexpensive gear out there on eBay that can be refurbished, that an unrepairable slow drift much more than 5 psi in my first stage is grounds to throw it away.
You can polish a knife edge or a piston shaft. But if the imperfection is on the inside of the reg body because some tech didn't use a brass bullet to reinsert the piston, or was clumsy with a steel pick, then there's not much you can do. If someone cheats with extra lube to fill the scratch and the reg appears to function just fine, beware using it a few hundred breaths later, when most of that lube has wiped away. If you're not checking with your IP gauge on a regular basis, whether you're a service technician or not, then you're playing with fire with old gear. EVERY first stage should lock up. If it doesn't, I wouldn't dive it. Don't accept creep. How much "drift" to accept is a personal decision. My tolerance is pretty low.
Use couv's checklist.
 
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With acknowledgment and apologies to couv, here is my adaptation of his checklist that I use with our dive club. I've added a little detail for some of our local divers, as well as a description of a DIY IP gauge. Since that thread is closed, I'll post it here. If anyone wants to modify it further for their own use, PM me and I'll send you a .docx file that you can edit.
 

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You can pick up all types of gadgets from most dive shops but very few of them stock IP gauge, well at least in HK!!
If the divers can readily remove the face plate of the 2nd stage then they would realize how efficient/inefficient in their post diving washing/rinsing process.
 
Good info on here. but be very careful polishing. Most manuals (all that I am aware of) specifically state to replace the seating orifice if it is damaged in any way. If your LDS is willing to order it for you, it's relatively inexpensive for peace of mind.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/swift/

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