High end video lights

[TotDoc]

I have been debating picking up a set of video lights - looking to get some higher lumen lights for both cave diving and open water diving. Since I want to use them in open water, I'd love to get some higher CRI lights to save effort in post processing. I have used low CRI floods before, and I was never super happy with the results. This has led me to look at a number of high end lights, and now I'm not really sure which way to go.

What I'm considering:
Keldan 4x video flux lights: 7000 lumen, 82 CRI, 110 degree
Fix Aquavolt 10000 lumen, 91 CRI, 100 degree
Light & Motion Sola Pro 9600 lumen, ? CRI, 90 degree

All lights are relatively similar in price.

The Keldans have a really smooth beam, and I know they are some seriously intense lights, and I really love the soft falloff of the edge of the beam. I have never seen the other lights, but I know they have a good reputation, and have heard they have a nice soft edge as well.

The Aquavolt has a little more light, for a little more money, but I like it that it has a controller for adjusting it remotely. The downside here, other than the extra cost, is the increase in bulk and weight of the lights. They might be a bit big to put on a goodman handle with a GoPro, which I think I would do with the Keldans now and then.

The Sola beam should be really intense, especially since they are packing 9600 lumen into a more narrow angle, but I am worried that might make for a harsher falloff at the edge of the beam. Also, I'm a little concerned about not having the ability to replace the battery, though I do love the fast charge feature.

I also really like the time remaining displays on the Aquavolt and Sola lights, though Keldan has a battery meter, too. Keldans also have the ability to add on their cyan filter for ambient light appearance, which I think is a pretty cool concept.

Does anyone have any practical experience in comparison of these lights? My heart has me going with the Keldans, but I think it's because I don't have enough experience with the other options...

Thanks!

 

[tbone1004]

have you looked at the UWLD's? They're 90CRI and run about $2400 and will give you all of the light for 75 minutes. I would be VERY skeptical about the Fix Aquavolts quoted burn times as it likely has a very rapid drop in light output in order to give the 50min burn time they quote, it just isn't possible with todays technology in a battery that small to put out that much light for that long. You can also put multiple heads on the same canister with burn time directly linked to the number of lights.

High CRI – Best of both Worlds
High CRI 10,000 Lumens Video Light

 

[TotDoc]

have you looked at the UWLD's?

I have looked at them, largely because I have a Bobby light for my primary and I LOVE it. I run his heated vest controller, too. I have a few issues with the UWLD solution, though - First, to get 2 lights, it gets a lot more expensive real quickly to keep equivalent burn times to these stand alone lights. Second, the bulk of the battery makes them less attractive for mounting on a goodman handle with a gopro, which is how I would like to use the lights on occasion. I'd need to run the short battery to have equivalent run times, and at that price and size, you're looking at the bigger Keldans as a comparison...which still hold up pretty well. I'm not really interested in running the corded lights for my planned use, but it's something I would consider down the line if I picked up a scooter and mounted lights to it... Finally, I have seen the videos on Bobby's site in open water, and they look great, but I saw some video from eagles nest with his lights, and it looked like there was a pretty distinct edge of the beam, which was really disappointing. Hopefully someone can post some video samples that prove me wrong here. I really WANT to like Bobby's video light.

 

[tbone1004]

so a couple things.
Beam angle. Bobby quotes 120* and it is a true 120*. If the lights were being used with a single light head with a gopro in wide then it will definitely have an edge, same if they were focused wrong compared to the light. This angle is consistent with the Keldan 4x, much wider than the Sola, and the Fix isn't published, but it will be somewhere in the ballpark. You aren't going to get any better angles than the UWLD lights, the edges are based on your ability to use the equipment you have.

You can technically put one either of the video lights on your primary canister, so depending on how you want to run everything, you can just keep stacking them onto the battery being mindful of burn times. The real important thing though is to remember what burn time means and if the burn times that the other manufacturers are quoting is even plausible.

The lights you quoted are all ~$1500 each, need a pair of them, so call it $3000 on the cheap side.
Keldan-6000 lumen for 45 mins. This is reasonable considering a 44wh battery pack- Total price for a pair is $3100
UWLD-50V with two heads and the tall battery will give you slightly less lumen, but better CRI *the originals were 6000 lumen but were dropped in favor of the higher CRI*, 100 minutes of total burn time, and cost just under $3000. Better deal there. Better lights, better burn time. The only downside is they are going to be canisters instead of handhelds, but they are still compatible with the UWLD goodman handles....

The Sola is going to limit you to 45mins again, but you get more light output. Downside here is a narrower beam angle, and higher cost with an unknown CRI. I'm also not a fan of their charging, switch, or the fact that from what I've heard their CS isn't the best when it comes to battery issues.... No experience, but what I've heard.

The Fix is terrible... Sorry, but they can't get that light output and burn time with the size battery they are using. It is not possible. What is possible to get those numbers, is to start at the quoted light output and steadily taper it down throughout the dive. Light and Motion has tested a bunch of these lights, and the cheap chinese drivers all produce a similar curve and it is at the bottom of the page on the following link. The UWLD light output is programmed to be similar to the Sola, and it appears the Keldan is similar. Based on that I would nix the Aquavolt right off the bat. You are paying for lumens, you should get the lumens you paid for for the entire duration that you thought you paid for....
Sola Video Pro 9600

Based on that, I would personally buy the UWLD-50V with a pair of light heads and the tall battery. You sacrifice some light output over the Solas, but get the higher CRI and wider beam angle.

Now, a pair of the big boy 10,000 lumens with the "short" medium sized batteries will be $4400, extra thousand dollars over the others. Gives you the same burn time as the Sola 9600's, little more light, wider beam angle, and higher CRI. Also gives you the huge advantages of the UWLD Gen5 systems that you are aware of.

 

[TotDoc]

You aren't going to get any better angles than the UWLD lights, the edges are based on your ability to use the equipment you have.

I don't entirely agree with this - beam angles aren't nearly as important as having a soft falloff on the edge of the beam. That's a quality the Keldans are known for, and why they are so frequently used in professional video applications. With a little ambient light around, the edges flat out disappear - that is what I am going for. Admittedly, the video I saw in a cave with Bobby's light is a more challenging environment, and I have not seen improperly aligned Keldans for a direct comparison...but I HAVE seen awesome video with them aligned correctly in a cave, and it is BEAUTIFUL. I am hoping someone can point me towards a similar video for the UWLD lights in a cave - it might put them back in the running. But from what I saw of the edge of the beam in the video I saw, it looked like a pretty steep cutoff, and that is NOT desirable for me. Again - please prove me wrong here with some video - I WANT to love the lights.

The lights you quoted are all ~$1500 each, need a pair of them, so call it $3000 on the cheap side.
Keldan-6000 lumen for 45 mins. This is reasonable considering a 44wh battery pack- Total price for a pair is $3100
UWLD-50V with two heads and the tall battery will give you slightly less lumen, but better CRI *the originals were 6000 lumen but were dropped in favor of the higher CRI*, 100 minutes of total burn time, and cost just under $3000. Better deal there. Better lights, better burn time.

The numbers aren't quite right for the Keldans. The latest version of the 4x video flux is currently 7k lumens, not 6. It's still 45 minutes, using a 48Wh pack at 14.4 V. Also, despite the improvement in specs, the price went down - they are $1370 each from all the usual vendors. That means that as compared to the ~$3000 for 2x5k lights from UWLD, I could get 40% more lumens for about $400 less. Yes, the CRI is a little lower 82 vs 90, but it's not below 70 like a lot of other cheaper lights.

Now, a pair of the big boy 10,000 lumens with the "short" medium sized batteries will be $4400, extra thousand dollars over the others. Gives you the same burn time as the Sola 9600's, little more light, wider beam angle, and higher CRI. Also gives you the huge advantages of the UWLD Gen5 systems that you are aware of.

That WOULD be sweet - but that's a lot more cash than I was hoping to spend.

But here's the thing - that link you gave was SUPER helpful - I have officially written off the Aquavolts based on that. The Sola lights are still interesting, depending on how their beam falls off. I have heard of issues with L&M lights, like you, and that has made me hesitant. That link used the old Keldan 4x for comparison, which in that test showed it was underrated a bit in regards to its actual lumen output, and it did have a nice flat lumen output curve to the end of the battery life. That is absolutely what I'm looking for. I know the UWLD will be the same way, and I DO love his batteries. I wish I could daisy chain more onto my big battery I already have, but since I am already running my UWLD35 and my heating vest, that's not going to leave me a lot of time for dual video lights - especially on my rebreather.

 

[tbone1004]

Dan Wright

check out Dan's page. Going back to April or March ish of this year they'll be done with the big video lights

 

[TotDoc]

This is what I plan to mount lights to when they are not on my open water camera rig . . . Will likely switch out the stubby arms to the nauticam thin float arms to keep it more neutral

 

[tbone1004]

if that's your plan, then I would go with the UWLD 60V's, pair of them. One side gland, one stack, or both stack caps, on the big canister. That will be your best bang for buck and will allow you versatility with your existing canister to account for burn times.

 

[tbone1004]

for everyones reference, this will be a duplicate post in the same thread on CDF.

regarding the video in question with the hard light edge and the hot spot in the middle
the video was done with a primary light shining in the middle which explains the hot spot. Remove the primary and the light spread on the UWLD's is as even if not more even than any other light on the market due to the custom optics.
The hard edges are designed to maximize light output throughout the illuminated area. If you need/want to use a diffuser, which will soften the edges, then the Dive Rite diffuser will fit the LD-50V and diying one for the 100V isn't that difficult
Dive Rite LX20 / LX25 Video Light Diffuser | Dive Gear Express®

UWLD will be releasing a diffuser for both of the video lights in the next couple of months as well which will soften the edges for you. Better solution is to keep the FoV of the lights a bit wider than the FoV of the camera and you don't have to worry about it while maximizing the light.

 

[TotDoc]

for everyones reference, this will be a duplicate post in the same thread on CDF.

regarding the video in question with the hard light edge and the hot spot in the middle
the video was done with a primary light shining in the middle which explains the hot spot. Remove the primary and the light spread on the UWLD's is as even if not more even than any other light on the market due to the custom optics.
The hard edges are designed to maximize light output throughout the illuminated area. If you need/want to use a diffuser, which will soften the edges, then the Dive Rite diffuser will fit the LD-50V and diying one for the 100V isn't that difficult
Dive Rite LX20 / LX25 Video Light Diffuser | Dive Gear Express®

UWLD will be releasing a diffuser for both of the video lights in the next couple of months as well which will soften the edges for you. Better solution is to keep the FoV of the lights a bit wider than the FoV of the camera and you don't have to worry about it while maximizing the light.

I'm not exactly sure what video it is you think I watched, as we have never discussed this. I have actually watched several on youtube, and several that came from your recommendation regarding Dan Wright's videos. I'm not happy with what I have seen so far in any of the videos. For the Dan Wright videos, it's pretty apparent he has 2 lights, as any time he gets close to anything, there are obvious hot spots at the upper corners where his lights live. In fact, these spots can be seen in the particulate water, even when he's not near anything. I'm not really sure that the higher particulate water is a great comparison vs what I had seen with the Keldans, so I'm really can't pass a firm judgement based on those - I simply note that it appears like the lights generate hotspots, but it could be the aiming, it could be the environment - who knows. That's why I had been asking for other examples. I think the video you are talking about was from youtube - there are a couple from eagles nest where it's apparent there is only 1 light being used, scooter mounted, and yes, there is a primary swinging about. It's pretty clear what light is from which, and there are certainly times where the primary was out of frame. The light was not aligned properly, and there is a very sharp cutoff at the edge of the corona of light. From my standpoint, I don't like that. I had seen another video on youtube where the single light was being hand held. Again there was a primary light around, and again, it was apparent where the primary was affecting the video, and where it wasn't. In that one, as the light panned side to side, it was again apparent that there was a sharp cutoff on the edge of the beam. Again, not optimum video to make a direct comparison, but it sure does appear that the Keldans, at least, have a much softer cutoff, which I think is pretty ideal for a light being used in a cave environment.

There are 2 schools of though, it seems, in light pattern for a flood light. One school does very even light from edge to edge, with a wide beam angle. This APPEARS to be the way that UWLD approaches this. I think that works pretty well with multiple lights, particularly in open water, as the lighting looks very even. It's the way my old video lights worked. I'm very familiar with that appearance. I'm not calling it evil or anything.

The second school is that the light is brighter in the center, but very gradually fades out towards the edges, and it's really not clear where the edge of the light is. This is the way the Keldans do it. The reason I like this, especially in a cave environment, is that as you approach walls on the sides of the frame, the intensity of the light is not as bright, so it doesn't blow out the exposure as much. I tend to find that much more visually appealing. In open water, with properly aimed lights, it also works well, as it makes the light seem very even and consistent, even as objects move towards and away from you, again without blowing out the exposure. I have also seen this in person, and I think it's really aesthetically pleasing.

If I am wrong about what camp the UWLD lights fall into, then I would LOVE to see some video that shows me that they work like the Keldans do. It seems I am right to notice this, though, since you said they have a "hard edge." That is not typically a praise in my book - especially when referring to a video light used for wide angle shots where there are objects moving closer and farther from you, or near the edges of the frame. Again, this is my PREFERENCE. Some people may feel otherwise. As it turns out, though, I am 100% certain I am the best judge of what I like best.

I agree that keeping the FOV wider than the FOV of the camera is the best option - but that is hard to do with less than 4 lights when talking about a very wide angle fisheye, especially when doing wide angle work on subjects at a distance, since a fisheye has a MUCH wider viewing angle than any of these lights - not only side to side, but top to bottom. Cranking the lights out wide tends to emphasize the blow out of objects coming into frame near the edges, and I would rather have a light that can be kept aimed more forward to minimize this in areas with close in terrain that passes near the edge of the camera rig.

I have repeatedly asked for some video that highlights how these lights work in a cave environment, but it is becoming quite apparent that although you continue to talk up the qualities of these lights, you are not actually using them - otherwise I would think you could supply this video yourself. I am also guessing that you have never used the Keldan lights, otherwise I think the points I'm bringing up would resonate with you a little more. I don't blame you for liking the UWLD lights, as I like Bobby's products as well (remember - I use and love his primary light and heat controller vest), but please respect that Keldan has been a top choice of professional underwater video folks for a reason.

In my initial post, I requested "Does anyone have any practical experience in comparison of these lights?" If you do not have practical experience with this comparison, I now feel like you are hijacking this thread to continue to pitch the UWLD lights. Please stop. I never asked about the UWLD lights, and I feel you have provided ample information about them at this point.