JeffG
Contributor
That is beyond my knowledge to comment on.Kim:
Hogarthian VS(?) DIR...
- Thread starter KOMPRESSOR
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Please don't misunderstand me - I don't for one moment think that DIR was only created to form Halcyon and profit from the concept. I'm trying to dig into why many people seem to love the concept of Hogarthian while getting so PO'd with DIR. Seems like a family argument to me.JeffG:
The Halcyon linkage is cited by many - often erroneously - as one of the sore points. Now, while I know already you don't need a Halcyon BP/W to be DIR, it's hard to escape the fact that further down the road you WILL need a Halcyon rebreather. I just think that this sort of linkage adds weight to the suspicions of those that don't trust the motives of the GUE upper echelons. When you get such public splits as just happened with AG over scooters then this perception gets reinforced.
It seems to be really a shame as there are not many who would dare deny the quality of the DIR concept as it relates to actual diving.
JeffG
Contributor
Need? Need? There are thousands of dive out there that do not require a rebreather. There is no "need"...unless there is an objective that requires one. (Please Note...there is a difference between want and need here)Kim:
I see that...but being a richard head...it boils down to "Who gives a F$#k"....Ignore the noise and its good, if you can't ...you can'tKim:
Yes a RB is only a tool, which is true of the rest of the gear as well...
If what you say is a "true" DIR position then there is a difference between Hog and DIR. A lot of people believe that an RB is the best tool for the job even when the dive can be done safely on OC.
If all of the above is true then you can be HOG without being DIR and hence DIR is not a superset of HOG...
Yes you are right. I should have said, "if you are going to do the kind of dives that......" first.JeffG:
Of course this raises that other rather ugly subject. Do most purely recreational divers really *need* GUE training to become safe competent divers in the first place? Are they really doing the kind of dives that require it - or is it for many a sort of perfection for perfections sake and the pride of the badge?
Food for thought.
JeffG
Contributor
I have no idea if my comment is a "true" DIR position or not (and truthfully...I couldn't care less)...but yes you could be HOG without being DIR...that was a given....oh so many years ago. (The hint would be...that HOG was there before DIR...and that DIR was built on top of HOG)grazie42:
JeffG
Contributor
No they dont. Would it help them....maybe.Kim:
I'm not sure I understand the question or the food for thought. A level of skill is required for dives...yes....If you go beyond that (ie...have more skills than required for a dive) is that a bad thing? To be good at something that you like..is that bad? (and you do not have to give that a label)Kim:
JeffG
Contributor
Interesting...I missed this the first time I read your post. Please Elaborate. Because (due to my bias) I don't see it (which doesn't mean it doesn't exist)grazie42:
JeffG:
I assumed that Kim was speaking of 'need' in the context of a dive that by it's objectives required an RB. (i.e. I get my rig DIR complient, my team etc...(and none of us own Halcyon) and now comes a dive that I'm going to 'need' an RB for, well now I 'have' to use an RB80 to remain DIR complient.) There are no other choice's.
Kim.. though there are most certainly others far more qualified then I am to answer your questions regarding "why is the RB80 the only rebreather that is DIR". As I understand it, it is a matter of the way in which the units are put together, both in the components used to make it, and the lay out of those components. Most certainly other units could be put together that would be DIR complient, as yet AFAIK no one has done so... however I did hear of an RB80 clone once.. I don't know if they used the same components though or if could possibly be sanctified as "DIR"
No it's not bad. My question stemmed from your correctly pointing out that *need* and *want* are two different things. Many people *want* to be as good as they can at what they are doing. Do they really *need* to be that good? There's nothing wrong with it but do they really *need* it? If they don't then should they be made to feel less because they don't want it?JeffG:
This board is full of seriously dedicated people striving to be as good as possible. There's nothing wrong with that. I often wonder though how many new divers reading the threads end up with the idea that anything less than DIR perfection is exactly that....less. How many seriously question their own training as a result? How many end up changing all their gear, doing DIR-F etc because they felt that it was more or less the only way they could be safe underwater? Of course DIR-F isn't going to hurt anyones skill level and only help. However - do we all really *need* it to do what we love safely and well? (this is where I hope the thinking starts!
)It seems to me that if people do things simply because they *want* to - and that can be DIR - then *wanting* to dive a rebreather (just for very long dives for instance) should be able to fit in there somewhere as well.
