How can I identify grey market dealers/websites?

[FaithC]

New to diving, researching equipment I want to purchase and I want to be sure that I'm purchasing from reputable dealers. What should I look for in an LDS' wares or a website to avoid grey market gear? Gear isn't cheap so I want to make sure I am getting quality and full warranty.

Thanks!
Faith

 

[Jim Lapenta]

You may not realize this but so called grey market dealers are not selling lower quality stuff. It is the exact same gear as an authorized dealer would have on their shelf. As for warranties what specifically are you worried about?

Any good dealer, authorized or "grey market" is going to make sure you are taken care of and happy.

 

[FaithC]

Then can you explain why there's concern at all about "grey market" gear? And how are others defining it?

---------- Post added March 31st, 2013 at 01:06 PM ----------

As for warranties, I was under the impression, perhaps incorrectly, that if you purchased from grey market or unauthorized dealers that the warranty may be void.

 

[WeldonDowd]

The so called "grey market" dealer may offer the same or a better warranty of their own.

 

[chrpai]

Then can you explain why there's concern at all about "grey market" gear? And how are others defining it?

In this area, the scuba industry is in the dark ages and sucks at times. Let's talk cars. If you bought a Chevy from someone who wasn't a Chevy dealer and took it to a Chevy dealer for warranty work they'd look at it and go 2 years old, 20,000 miles... yup, no problem. In the use, by law, they can't have restrictions like must have been original owner with proof of purchase from one of our authorized dealers and had all maintenance work done by one of our dealers.

In the dive industry, they aren't so enlightened. If you aren't the original owner or didn't purchase from an authorized dealer some manufacturers will refuse warranty work. It's not that the "grey market" dealers sell you any less quality gear, they just threaten the pricing monopoly that the manufacturers have in place.

Either plan ball or go with manufacturers who don't have these horrible customer no-service policies. You should be able to get a complete set of recreational o/w gear for <$1500 if you choose the right brands and products. We recently had someone post a shopping list that was up around $4000. This is crazy.

 

[Lorenzoid]

As others have said, there is nothing inherently wrong with "grey market" products. The term "grey market" was coined from the term "black market," which refers to trade that is illegal. There is nothing illegal about grey market goods. The classic case of grey market goods is where someone in the US will lawfully purchase goods in a foreign country that the US manufacturer of those goods had sold in the foreign country with the idea that they would remain in the foreign country. So in this scenario the US manufacturer discovers that his goods intended for the foreign market are making their way back into the US, where they are competing in the marketplace with the goods that he manufactured for the US market. But the the goods that the manufacturer sold for foreign consumption and expected them to stay abroad are identical to the goods the manufacturer sells for US consumption. If they were not identical, the person selling them in the US could run afoul of trademark or copyright law. This has happened in some instances, and you see court cases now and then about it.

It is the US manufacturers and their US distributors who feel threatened by grey market goods. You the consumer should not feel threatened. The whole concept of "grey market goods" is just a fluke of protectionist US intellectual property law, and the global economy is increasingly putting pressure on the law for change. Just make sure that the store you buy the item from is reputable and offers a full warranty--which most do (and as someond said above, in some cases the warranty is actually better than the manufacturer's). And keep in mind that after the warranty period is over, you would have to pay out of pocket for having your gear serviced regardless of whether you purchased from an authorized dealer or anywhere else. The authorized dealer will be happy to take your money to service gear you purchased elsewhere.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

Others use the "grey market" scare tactic as a response to the lower prices that you can get. Much of the complaints about grey market gear come from those who do not want you to know how overpriced some things are.

If I may be so bold I have a chapter devoted to gear selection in my book that also looks at some of the common pricing models used in the US dive industry. Some that are actually illegal in other parts of the world.

PM to find out how you can get a copy of it.

 

[redacted]

The cost of a "full manufacturer's warranty" can be quite high and is, in most cases, a waste of money. That warranty may double the acquisition cost and can continue to increase the cost of ownership if you have unnecessary service performed IAW the limited warranty conditions.

Foe example, my wife's Scubapro Mk20/S600 cost me $330 from mail order European dealer (not authorized by Scubapro USA). This was when if first came out and the USA MSRP was over $600. Since then (about 2001) it has been serviced twice (I do it myself). Even with the cost of upgrading to a composite piston and if I were paying going price for parts and service, I would not have spent $600 on it yet. Had I purchased from an authorized dealer, I would have over $1300 in it now with annual service labor at $60 per year even with "free" parts.

 

[beaverdivers]

What should I look for in an LDS' wares or a website to avoid grey market gear?

Yes, dealing w/ a reputable dealer is important.

You will be able to tell because the un-authorized seller will not state that they are an Authorized Dealer.
Also if they bash a brand, then they probably are not able to sell it or get it directly from the vendor.

Grey market stuff made not be the same. It may have been sitting in a shop that has gone out of biz., travelled around the world from who knows where or it maybe even be counterfeit.

Why not deal w/ an authorized dealer and get better pricing than the grey market stuff?

 

[Lorenzoid]

. . .
Grey market stuff made not be the same. It may have been sitting in a shop that has gone out of biz., travelled around the world from who knows where or it maybe even be conterfeit.
. . .

If it is counterfeit, it is not "grey market." The definition of "grey market" goods means that they are the real deal, genuine goods, not counterfeit. Counterfeit goods are counterfeit goods. Don't confuse the terminology.