How much light for night diving?

[DjDiverDan]

It weighs practically nothing with no batteries in it.

True. But it won't put out much light in that condition.

 

[ggunn]

True. But it won't put out much light in that condition.

In my luggage on the flight down it doesn't need to.

 

[tbone1004]

In my luggage on the flight down it doesn't need to.

so now you have to add the cost of batteries every time you plan to use it on a trip and while that may only be a dollar or two, it means that the other lights we've been suggesting will have a lower cost of ownership

 

[ggunn]

so now you have to add the cost of batteries every time you plan to use it on a trip and while that may only be a dollar or two, it means that the other lights we've been suggesting will have a lower cost of ownership

But it's the light I already have, so it doesn't cost anything but for batteries, and I prefer single use over rechargeable batteries, anyway.

 

[tbone1004]

But it's the light I already have, so it doesn't cost anything but for batteries, and I prefer single use over rechargeable batteries, anyway.

which i can appreciate, and that doesn't mean you should upgrade, but does that mean someone else should buy one? Less output, larger form factor, higher total cost, etc.

For anyone else in the same spot about rechargeable batteries
https://www.amazon.com/LampVPath-Pr...ds=18650+aaa&refinements=p_85:2470955011&th=1
They come in various increments, but between $1-$2/holder and allows you to use AAA's instead of 18650's but expect burn time to cut in half

 

[ggunn]

which i can appreciate, and that doesn't mean you should upgrade, but does that mean someone else should buy one? Less output, larger form factor, higher total cost, etc.

I do not evangelize. Everyone has their own priorities and should buy the dive light(s) that work for them.

 

[halocline]

Light Monkey uses a loophole for their big packs and it has cost some people their lights at airports already because TSA didn't buy it.

[COLOR=#000000]What is it about you and light monkey, did they run over your dog or something?
Please substantiate the comment that current LM canisters are not TSA compliant to the same extent that UWLD canisters are.[/COLOR]

 

[tbone1004]

What is it about you and light monkey, did they run over your dog or something?
Please substantiate the comment that current LM canisters are not TSA compliant to the same extent that UWLD canisters are.

Batteries:
This is talking about Light Monkeys largest 25ah pack which has 287wh.
Contrasted against UWLD's largest pack which is 160wh.

UN38.3 regulations limit packs larger than 160wh.

Light Monkey has two battery packs, a 115wh pack, and a 57wh pack. The 25ah pack, is two of the 115wh packs, and one of the 57wh packs. These are sealed inside of the canister, and you have to trust that either TSA isn't going to ask, or you can talk your way out by showing them that there is a disconnect in there. It is a gray area and there have been reports of these packs being confiscated, I believe two in Australia, and one in Mexico because security wasn't buying it.
The second issue if you aren't travelling with the light, is because there are two different sized batteries, and the light does not have sequential draw, the 57wh pack will die long before the 115wh packs die because it is smaller so is getting drawn down faster. It's a really sketchy way to make a battery pack.

UWLD has one battery pack which is just shy of 54wh, and for their tall pack that we're talking about, there are three in series. Total is 160wh, right at the maximum, and the canisters have UN38.3 compliant engraved on them which helps to minimize risk. The nature of all three packs being identical, means that they should age at the same rate.


For the product, there are a lot more reasons, but the TLDR is you are spending more money for an inferior product. In this case the LM 25-32, vs the UWLD 26-160 with the standard gland, not sidemount

By the numbers
Light Monkey
2500 lumen
32w
8 hours burn
$1930

UWLD
2600 lumen
20w
7.5 hours burn
$1745

Features that you get with UWLD that you don't get with LM
Charging base with latchless head vs. removing the latched head and dealing with banana plugs
Piezo button on the head vs. toggle switch on the canister
Total package is ~20% lighter, only a pound, but it's still a pound
Light head is significantly smaller-
Cord has a braided cover for abrasion protection
Uses high quality glands vs the cheap plastic glands that are less prone to breakage, especially in cold weather and after UV where the plastic gets brittle
Option for hard and soft goodman handle that has the QR so you don't have to remove the whole goodman to swap hands or clip the light off
Multiple light output settings-this is a software function not an hardware function btw, so it's not added complexity, just added convenience of being able to turn it down to light match if in a cave, extend burn time, or reduce backscatter.

All of those features, and I get to save $200? Alternatively, I can spend $15 more than the LM and get 40% increase in light output by stepping up to the UWLD 35-160 which has 3500 lumen over 2500? Same money, more features, and 40% more light?

No narrative required, no selling required, LM no longer represents value in the dive light market because they no longer have a competitive product at their chosen price point. This is about to get worse when Dive Rite releases the HP50 which will be cheaper, has similar efficiency to the UWLD-26 and has a lot more features than LM, though not quite as many as UWLD. Customer service is essentially the same for all three brands, so you don't get any advantage there. In a month or two you'll be able to choose to spend $2k on a true state of the art light with UWLD, spend the same for a decade old light with LM, or spend probably just over half of that for the Dive Rite HP50 and sacrifice some features, but get a more efficient, and more cost effective light than the LM.

Why would you buy LM?

 

[halocline]

OP, I used a C4 eLED for years in Cozumel and it worked great. It is a lot bulkier than the current handheld back up lights, but it does have a nice wash of light rather than a hot spot. You might be able to find one used for a very reasonable price. But there are several small back up lights that are also excellent.

 

[sinistar]

@tbone1004, I suggested the tried and true solution of a pistol grip primary, twist on backup and strobe/cylume on the tank because this couple is new to diving and new to night dives. Actually, if I could change anything about my post it would be to buy an even cheaper pistol grip light and that would only be if they are not entirely certain the dive shop could just rent them their primary lights.

Example: when we fly at night we have tiny finger lights - thought it would be great...sucked...anywhere on the hand sucked. Then I just clipped them to the headsets...now awesome! Point I am trying to make here is that having a wrist/finger mounted light may not be for everyone. Sure, it is probably gospel for tech / kiss / DIR divers but remember these guys are new to diving and new to night diving. They might just want to point a very standard light in the direction of interest. They might be less likely to blind someone else using a standard light. They might be less apprehensive about the night dive with a standard light. The might feel way less foolish if they donate a cheaper light to Davy Jones.

I get where you are going, spend more and get the final solution on the first try. Heck, I'd be the first to say never even consider a typical BCD and just get a backplate, wing and harness and add a long hose and necklace. Yet for night dives which are so infrequent and possibly something the may not like, spend the least right now. If they like diving (and I am sure they will), they should spend $$$ first on a great reg, then a backplate/wing/harness then a underwater video rig and then they will have to buy nice lighting.

Here's some more irony. I love night dives and use a torch for filming video! I always have a twist light tied off to the harness and a blinking light on my tank. So I understand each of your posts and rationalizations to buying the better light. Just give them some time.

Remember your first night dive? I recall being a bit apprehensive, I remember lights being pointed in people's eyes while gearing up, I definitely remember getting split up from my dive buddy when a cluster of people converged and being very difficult to identify them afterwards, I remember another newbie losing a dive light at the end of the dive. I also remember it being so damned amazing.