Humber West Incident Saturday

[Axeman]

Not sure where to put this as I did not see a forum for it. but here is goes.
attatched is a report on an incident that happened in Saturday

Feedback is appreciated.

http://scubajunkies.ca/Features/Report101604.pdf

Thanks

 

[roakey]

Feedback:

If you're leading, you can't see problems develop, you should follow.

If you're students can't handle leading, find another environment to do the checkout dives in such that they can, or have two professionals with the group, one to lead and one to follow.

The root cause is that you didn't see the problem develop, you were forced to react to a fulll-blown crisis by the time you became aware of the problem (wich forced you to dessert three unqualified divers -- good thing the problems did not cascade).

Roak

 

[Michael Schlink]

Well you did some things right and some things not so right, but at least you did something and it all worked out
I have a sign on my desk that reads " everyone is entitled to my opinion"
I think a break down of the dive may help, plus you really need to have a de-brief with the instructor.
First be careful accepting responsibility for student divers that you don't know anything about. Now I'm not saying don't do it just be careful IE: I would have wanted to get some background on the students from the inst. do they have any areas of concern, weaknesses etc.
When you saw that two divers had only 1000psi and 2 had 2000psi that means you either have 2 really good breathers or two fast breathers I mean that since there was a big air consumption difference I would be have to assume that the two with 1000psi were going through the gas quickly and the other two were typical. At that point you need to be keeping a close eye on the two, plus you probably should have been calling the dive and ascending to a safety stop.
When you can't find a student diver and you have other student divers with you, limit any U/W search, but take the divers with you, don't leave them alone ESPECIALY U/W. Surface with everyone, do a head count and give them specific instructions
Inflate your BCD's, do not go U/W, swim back to the beach what ever you need them to do.
You had a real life emergancy so you should have signalled for help
Get some more divers in the water, have somone help the three out of the water and then go get the 4th. Or send someone else after #4
Getting bounced around the rocks could have ended up with two people needing a more serious rescue, get some help.
I think you were the hero of the day, but don't hesitate to blow your whistle next time, that's what it's for

 

[mccabejc]

I'm new to diving (only 20 dives), and don't know what I'm talking about, but I'll comment anyway :

First, it seems to me that one instructor and 4 students alone is, almost by definition, not the right mix. ANY problem with one student will need an experienced person to handle the problem student and one to handle the other three, which was apparent in this case. I would think that an instructor would have to plan for, at least, the most likely contingencies, which certainly would include a student getting lost, requiring the instructor to do a search while someone watches the herd.

Given the situation the instructor was in, however, I guess the first question is "Do you bring everyone to the surface first before searching?" My gut tells me that 3 students alone underwater is not nearly as safe as three students on the surface where the instructor can see them while he's searching for the lost person. Since the max planned depth was only 25 ft., why not blow the safety stop, if possible, and just bring everyone up together, and have them float on the surface? The rule is that if you lose a buddy, look around for a minute then surface. Why not do that as a group? Then there's no more worry about them running out of air, and having to divide his time between the 3 students and the 1 lost student. In the end, that's what he did anyway. Maybe I'd also have them drop weights when they get on the surface just in case (might help with the 2 ft. waves).

Third, I would think that he should have blown a whistle or inflated a sausage to attract everyone's attention to the situation.

 

[Michael Schlink]

MC re-read my post
I suggested that he should have called the dive when he checked ALL FOUR divers air supply. I have student divers make a safety stop on ALL training dives, regardless of the depth of the dive site. The reason is simply so they have the opportunity to develop the skill DURING their training. Open water dives are not tests, they are training dives. A missing diver is not in of itself an emergency and happens regularly during training, especially in low viz quarries where a great deal of training takes place. When the DM realized he was short 1 diver he should have/could have taken a short look around. On training dives in low viz I don't search for a minute, 20-30 seconds is plenty. After a short look around the DM should of brought everyone to the surface. And then if the missing diver wasn't on the surface he should start emergency protocols proper for the dive site.
Also 4 divers with one DM is rather typical and depending on the divesite/conditions would be OK especially if this were the last training dive.
Another issue is that the student divers cannot/should not be left alone anywhere-surface or U/W but if I somehow was put in the position that I had to leave a student diver alone it would have to be on the surface.-M

 

[Axeman]

Thanks for the replies.
Their air consumption was fine. the two diver who were at 1000psi were at that pressure due to a longer skills eval before the tour started.

When I "left" them on the bottom I was not planning on surfacing. I was ascending to see if I could see the other diver and have her join the group. I was hopoing to continue the dive. I decided at the last min to surface and look for her. I kept the divers in sight the whole time.

Thanks for the feedback. The more I knwo the better prepared I will be for the future.

 

[Michael Schlink]

As I said before I think you stepped up and did something and it all worked out. You should keep in mind that once you're on the surface the idea that you could just drop down on top of your student divers to solve a problem could easily be prevented by a problem with equalizing. Additionally if your #4 divers was on the surface a short distance away and in distress you would have to leave the 3 on the bottom and try for the #4 diver, still not an ideal situation. If your going up or down take everyone with you.-M

 

[Axeman]

As I said before I think you stepped up and did something and it all worked out. You should keep in mind that once you're on the surface the idea that you could just drop down on top of your student divers to solve a problem could easily be prevented by a problem with equalizing. Additionally if your #4 divers was on the surface a short distance away and in distress you would have to leave the 3 on the bottom and try for the #4 diver, still not an ideal situation. If your going up or down take everyone with you.-M

Thanks for the input. This is why I posted this report instead of keeping everything to myself. I like to get feedback that I can take with me in the future.

I start my AI this weekend and I think I am a better diver/leader from the experience last weekend.

Thanks

Chris

 

[mddolson]

Axeman,

Just a few comments, and recommendations on how you possibly may have avoided the incident or dealt with it.
I'm a bit of a control freak so I would not have set you up in this situation in the first place.
1) The instructor shouldn't have saddled you with more 2 divers (1 buddy pair)
2) You should't have accepted more than two divers to tour. (both agencies I'm certied to teach under set student to tour guide ratios at max 2:1)
3)I agree with some earlier advise. You shouldn't have lead them (you can't see out of the back of your head). I don't beleive in folllowing either. I coach my leaders to tour newbies, with both on the same side. This way you can see them both at the same time. You don't have to turn your back on one to check the other. I dive in a drysuit so my students are placed on my left , so I can keep an eye on them when, even if I have to roll and vent my suit, when ascending to shallower water.
4) Surface float: I would expect you to work the float. Newbies have a difficult time managing the basics. It just adds an entanglement risk to the situation. You can hand it over a one student to hold while dealing with a problem of course.
5) I would have brought the 3 some to the surface immediately. Once you found the missing diver, you could then send them to shore on the surface, while you dealt with the crying woman. ( no risk or anyone running short on air that way).

I tend to be very conservative, and I approach every checkout dive with the attitutde, "What's this clown going do today to get him/herself in trouble".

regards

Mike D
NAUI 4780
PADI 202288

Not sure where to put this as I did not see a forum for it. but here is goes.
attatched is a report on an incident that happened in Saturday

Feedback is appreciated.

http://scubajunkies.ca/Features/Report101604.pdf

Thanks