Hybrid Sidemount - with a standard Wing or BCD

[Roy_W]

I dive locally with a Twinset , 2 * 10ltr for a couple of reasons. My SAC seldom drops below 18ltr/min, I like having plenty of air, for myself and also some for the buddy and I don't need any extra lead ;-)

When on holiday however, if I drive I take the doubles -so no problem there, if I cant drive though then it's the reason for the following question :

What suggestions would you offer in order that I can dive with at least the same amount of gas, 20 ltr, but using just a normal BCD an Apeks Black Ice or an OMS BP/W ( single tank setup), without having to "invest" in a sidemount harness...

Does anyone dive with a single tank on their back and a secondary , same size or slightly smaller, on their side.. I am not thinking pony here as the idea is to use both bottles as one would do with sidemount ? I have double 1st stages so that's not a problem..

The idea being that I can go on holiday, thinking liveaboard or wrecks, and still have at least 20ltrs. The question is related more to diving beyond 20m where SAC rates become very important.

Don't hesitate to say that it's not a great idea if that's the case.

 

[sprockjohnson]

One of my buddies has done something similar with his IST single tank BP/W. We added bungees clipped to some of the side holes in the backplate and he just clips the lower tank boltsnap to his waist D-rings. The issue, potentially, with this setup is the wing size depending on how many tanks you are planning to use, amount of extra gear, etc. combined with your exposure equipment and planned depth. A single tank wing is usually not sufficient to carry all the extra weight of these items if you are using a wetsuit and compress it enough to lose buoyancy below 100-130 feet or so. Other than that, it is absolutely doable.

 

[Roy_W]

The issue, potentially, with this setup is the wing size depending on how many tanks you are planning to use, amount of extra gear, etc. combined with your exposure equipment and planned depth.

The Apeks black ice is a large wing, 23Kg of lift, it is what I use for the Twin 10ltrs so it could easily manage any extras. It also has a "lot" of D-Rings..

The OMS is only a small wing however, just 14 ltrs, so I agree it's not adapted to a lot of weight.. ( I could look for a reasonable price double wing though).

 

[-JD-]

There are adapters that let you mount 2 independent tanks with cam-bands and then bolt it on like a "standard" twinset. You don't get the manifold aspect, but other than alternating regs, it dives the same .

This would be an example: Used - S/S Independent Doubles - Travel Bands

ScubaPro also has the "Bibo" kit but I'm uncertain if it will attach to all plates/packs: https://www.diveshop4u.eu/eng/catalog/1/156/191/1645

There have been a number of designs out there but the only current one I've found at hand is the SP- Bibo



A number of plates have the slots to accommodate 2 pairs of bands. I recently modified a Golem Gear Stream Reverse-Pattern dog-bone plate (Golem Stream Backplate) to allow for 2 pairs of cambands. Coupled with a newer Dive-Rite "Rec" wing with the mostly open, cruciform center panels, I can run the rig with a single, independent doubles, or banded doubles.

I dove that in Cozumel with ID AL80s and was pretty happy with it. Instead of a pony and larger AL100, I simply rented one extra cylinder per trip, consumed the left fully for the dive and used the right for extra-time/redundancy (right had 2 second stages). Between dives I swapped the left cylinder. Cost was the same as bumping up to AL100s with way more available gas.

 

[Roy_W]

There are adapters that let you mount 2 independent tanks with cam-bands and then bolt it on like a "standard" twinset. You don't get the manifold aspect, but other than alternating regs, it dives the same .

This would be an example: Used - S/S Independent Doubles - Travel Bands

ScubaPro also has the "Bibo" kit but I'm uncertain if it will attach to all plates/packs: https://www.diveshop4u.eu/eng/catalog/1/156/191/1645

There have been a number of designs out there but the only current one I've found at hand is the SP- Bibo

I dove that in Cozumel with ID AL80s and was pretty happy with it. Instead of a pony and larger AL100, I simply rented one extra cylinder per trip, consumed the left fully for the dive and used the right for extra-time/redundancy (right had 2 second stages). Between dives I swapped the left cylinder. Cost was the same as bumping up to AL100s with way more available gas.

Now that is an interesting solution. Effectively it would just be the same as diving a Twinset without the manifold. The Black Ice already has twin cam bands so its just a case of adding the BIBO in order to keep the tanks aligned.. and it's priced pretty good..

Excellent thanks for that.

 

[-JD-]

Now that is an interesting solution. Effectively it would just be the same as diving a Twinset without the manifold. The Black Ice already has twin cam bands so its just a case of adding the BIBO in order to keep the tanks aligned.. and it's priced pretty good..

Excellent thanks for that.

The Black Ice would have to be compatible with standard banded doubles for the Bibo to work.

While noodling around, I found there is actually a ID(It is clear as mud if hard bands are required or not) twin kit for the Black Ice!

Apeks Black Ice Twin Cylinder Kit

If you own an Apeks Black Ice BCD (see SKU: APXBI) and want it to be compatible with a twin cylinder set-up for increased gas capacity to make longer or deeper dives the Apeks Twin Cylinder Kit is what

www.scuba.com

ETA:
Found

• the manual: https://www.scubacenter.com/PDF/Apeks_Black_Ice_Twin_Cylinder_Kit_427106.pdf
• another assembly video: Implies that at least with a manifold, you'll need atl least one hard band.

My guess is that it would work ok with IDs and no hard band, but I'd suggest asking around or reaching out to APEKS.

 

[Wibble]

FWIW I started diving with a Black Ice for exactly this reason; "could use it for twins". Quickly realised it is wholly sub-optimal -- won't work with manifolded twins nor normal sized twins (e.g. ali80s or twin 12 litre steels).

Promptly moved to a backplate, single-piece harness, and wing. Sold the Black Ice and put the loss down to experience.

If diving with a single, then a single-tank wing and adapter is needed.

When diving with single or twins, it's the same backplate & harness. It's lovely to dive, super trim, easy to use, no danglies, etc.

 

[Roy_W]

While noodling around, I found there is actually a ID(It is clear as mud if hard bands are required or not) twin kit for the Black Ice!

Yes, these are what I use at the moment with the Twin 10Ltrs. They required tank bands dedicated for the diameter of my 10ltrs..
That BIBO solution would replace the tank bands which is much easier to travel with and they can apparently be used on multiple tank sizes. It looks as though there is velrco on the ends.

FWIW I started diving with a Black Ice for exactly this reason; "could use it for twins". Quickly realised it is wholly sub-optimal -- won't work with manifolded twins nor normal sized twins (e.g. ali80s or twin 12 litre steels).

That's quite suprising to read, I have been using the manifolded Twin 10ltrs for almost 3 years now and they have never presented any problems.
I use my BP/W when diving with a single 15ltr. I like both the BCD and the Wing, The Black Ice is a rear inflated BCD so it dives very similar to the wing. Strangely enough though I can donn/doff the BP/W easier than Black Ice.

 

[Wibble]

That's quite suprising to read, I have been using the manifolded Twin 10ltrs for almost 3 years now and they have never presented any problems.

I had a pair of 7 litre 300 bar manifolded cylinders which wouldn't work with it.

I didn't persist as I used it as the excuse to jump for the BP+Wing option.

For travelling, I've an aluminium backplate & harness (as well as the stainless BP+harness), so choose lightness. If travelling to use twins, I'd expect to rent "standard" manifolded and banded twins, but on my own BP+harness+wing (and hope to rent 'V' weights).
If travelling for single cylinder, would use the single tank wing+adapter and have a couple of pouches on the cam bands to pop in a couple of 2lb weights.

Also wasn't a fan of the Black Ice's horseshoe wing. Admittedly it was very early in my diving career, but didn't like the gas migrating to one side of the horseshoe. Oh, and lost two lots of weights into Neptune's locker.

 

[SlugLife]

Do you have any SideMount experience? I "self taught" SideMount with the instructional videos from Sidemounting.com and a good amount of free-time. It can be somewhat challenging, frustrating, and finicky.

That said, I have done sidemount (just side-mount, with no back tank), by adding bungies under the arms, adjusting the d-rings, and using some bungies to prevent the wing from turning into a parachute. Since you have the backmount tank, you wouldn't need to worry about the last part about the wing.

The other thing to consider with your setup is balancing your bouyancy left/right. With aluminum tanks, it's not too bad. About 1.5 to 2lbs on the opposite side should do the trick. With steel, it's a pain to get right, but you'll want about 4-5lbs.

Aside from sidemount, you could do the basic mimic technical divers, when the bring extra cylinders. I'm not a technical-diver, so I can't answer questions, but basically this: