IceBerger, your posting is rude. Please apologize.
I almost DIED in Grand Cayman!
- Thread starter davezwife
- Start date
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IceBerger, your posting is rude. Please apologize.
Scubasteve, dive professionals needs to be aware of how anxiey and panic can affect divers.
Instructors need to be aware of students who may be taking scuba for the wrong reasons.
Instructors need to tell their students about:
1) doing a good pre-dive assessment,
2) the value of diving with a guide in a new location,
3) and about declining to dive when one is nervous about a dive.
ScubaSteve
Wow.....what a DB
OK openminded. I made the mistake of convincing myself that because my instructors HAD taught me those things, that this fell under the "already known" umbrella. I suppose not all instructors do if davezwife was not taught how to assess a site. But we are also assuming that they were not taught these things....maybe they were but just chose to not implement them because they felt they were capable. Only the OP can say for sure. I agree these are all things that people need to be taught but I will be surprised if any instructors out there say "Gee I never thought of teaching that". Sometimes it is just that the diver "chooses to forget" their training.
However, it is not up to the instructor to know agree or disagree with a student's reasons for taking scuba (unless it is to sink their neighbour's boat). If they pass, they pass. If they do not pass, then they fail. It is good to understand the reasons but the instructor should not try to convince someone to dive just because they feel they are doing it for the wrong reason. 9 times out of 10 (just my assumed numbers) the person certifying would not realize it was for the wrong reason and pointing it out to them will just piss them off.
However, it is not up to the instructor to know agree or disagree with a student's reasons for taking scuba (unless it is to sink their neighbour's boat). If they pass, they pass. If they do not pass, then they fail. It is good to understand the reasons but the instructor should not try to convince someone to dive just because they feel they are doing it for the wrong reason. 9 times out of 10 (just my assumed numbers) the person certifying would not realize it was for the wrong reason and pointing it out to them will just piss them off.
funkcanna
Contributor
300ft from shore? Thats like what - 100m? I can nearly p!ss that far if I squeeze really hard. 
I dont mean to be rude (for fear of being told off by openmindOW) but when I seen the title of the thread I was expecting you being wedged underwater or having your tank spontaneously combust etc - not a long surface swim. Glad your ok though...
I dont mean to be rude (for fear of being told off by openmindOW) but when I seen the title of the thread I was expecting you being wedged underwater or having your tank spontaneously combust etc - not a long surface swim. Glad your ok though...
Fair point, ScubaSteve.
You obviously got good instruction.
Unfortunately, however, there are dive classes out there that are rushed. Consequently, important points may not get covered.
You obviously got good instruction.
Unfortunately, however, there are dive classes out there that are rushed. Consequently, important points may not get covered.
funkcanna
Contributor
Which is why its important for a diver to be self aware. If someone finishes the OW or AOW course and still dont feel comfortable this is when alarms bells should ring. This person should seek further training or take it VERY slow.
Common sense just aint that common.
ScubaSteve
Wow.....what a DB
I think the problem is that many new divers may be blinded by a couple of things:
1. I am a certified diver. Look out ocean I am coming!
2. Ooooo something shiny in the water!
3. I have Ccard, therefore I dive!
4. My dive buddy is my safety net if I need it. They are experienced!
5. This is going to be soooo cool!
You will notice that in my opinion, common sense sometimes does get set aside temporarily as a new diver. Many may disagree with me, but new divers can get so caught up in the excitement of diving that they may not pay attention to a current. They also may not think to ask anybody any questions because the water looks so calm ands gentle. They often get caught in believing that their dive buddy will be there to save them if anything should happen. It does not always matter how a diver was trained.....just because they forgot to ask a question about a current does not mean they were ill trained. It may or it may not. Maybe they got caught up in the excitement and it slipped past them. A lot of what diving experience gives you is a sort of second nature sensation with respect to the skills. It also gives you a new way of thinking which allows you to see things that as a new diver you may not have seen. The bottom line is, I do not believe that all instructors are bad and I do not believe that a new diver that forgets to check for currents is faced with ultimate and certain death. Divers are people no matter what certification level they are at. The difference is experience where one diver has themselves "auto-programmed" on what to do if this or if that.
The first 2 or 3 dives after a period of lengthy dormancy (winter) I kept trying to put my tank on backwards. Finally I clicked and once I had done it several times, it was common sense and one of the "auto programmed" features of me as a diver. All of the skills that are learned in an OW or even AOW class are, to oversimplify, shown by example and then reciprocated. I know there is more to it but that is not the point. Once reciprocated a couple of times, you pass an exam and here is your card. My point that this is not sufficient to truly embed the skills in the brain. Repetition is what makes most brains lock something away for safe keeping.
1. I am a certified diver. Look out ocean I am coming!
2. Ooooo something shiny in the water!
3. I have Ccard, therefore I dive!
4. My dive buddy is my safety net if I need it. They are experienced!
5. This is going to be soooo cool!
You will notice that in my opinion, common sense sometimes does get set aside temporarily as a new diver. Many may disagree with me, but new divers can get so caught up in the excitement of diving that they may not pay attention to a current. They also may not think to ask anybody any questions because the water looks so calm ands gentle. They often get caught in believing that their dive buddy will be there to save them if anything should happen. It does not always matter how a diver was trained.....just because they forgot to ask a question about a current does not mean they were ill trained. It may or it may not. Maybe they got caught up in the excitement and it slipped past them. A lot of what diving experience gives you is a sort of second nature sensation with respect to the skills. It also gives you a new way of thinking which allows you to see things that as a new diver you may not have seen. The bottom line is, I do not believe that all instructors are bad and I do not believe that a new diver that forgets to check for currents is faced with ultimate and certain death. Divers are people no matter what certification level they are at. The difference is experience where one diver has themselves "auto-programmed" on what to do if this or if that.
The first 2 or 3 dives after a period of lengthy dormancy (winter) I kept trying to put my tank on backwards. Finally I clicked and once I had done it several times, it was common sense and one of the "auto programmed" features of me as a diver. All of the skills that are learned in an OW or even AOW class are, to oversimplify, shown by example and then reciprocated. I know there is more to it but that is not the point. Once reciprocated a couple of times, you pass an exam and here is your card. My point that this is not sufficient to truly embed the skills in the brain. Repetition is what makes most brains lock something away for safe keeping.
funkcanna
Contributor
I agree. New dives may well overlook these things in their excitement. Personally however when I do something, I do it properly. I was 18 when I got certified 8 year ago - a kid - but even then I took it seriously and I read and read and read. I read about currents, I read about problems and how to deal with them I read everything I could so I could be prepared. This was far beyond what I was taught on my OW course (which was very well taught). I stopped diving for a while to get qualified as a skydiver, which I read and read and read about. Then when I started diving again last year I read and read and read to refresh myself. If I am going to be putting myself in potential danger (no matter how small the risk) I want to be prepared.
Unfortunately nowadays diving (and to some extent skydiving) is deemed by the public to be easy and accessible to everyone by simply attending a course. I would bet that not many of newly certified divers would even consider at first to research more than the OW course teaches them. This causes issues such as the OP's. But again, as with anything in life, if something doesnt feel right, it probably isnt - this is common sense. Learn more - put effort in to understand and work on making things more comfortable by staying within comfortable boundaries and progressing from there.
There is certainly an important lesson to be learned here for any new diver reading this when something as simple (in context) as a long surface swim made someone think they nearly died. Read, learn from others and above all, move forward at your own pace.
Unfortunately nowadays diving (and to some extent skydiving) is deemed by the public to be easy and accessible to everyone by simply attending a course. I would bet that not many of newly certified divers would even consider at first to research more than the OW course teaches them. This causes issues such as the OP's. But again, as with anything in life, if something doesnt feel right, it probably isnt - this is common sense. Learn more - put effort in to understand and work on making things more comfortable by staying within comfortable boundaries and progressing from there.
There is certainly an important lesson to be learned here for any new diver reading this when something as simple (in context) as a long surface swim made someone think they nearly died. Read, learn from others and above all, move forward at your own pace.
ScubaSteve
Wow.....what a DB
Well put funkcanna. I agree with you. I am in no way condoning errors but am just saying that it happens and it is best to learn quickly from them because the wrong error at the wrong time....irrecoverable. It is best to go slow and double check everything. Doing it right the first time mitigates most of the risk in the "sport".
yeah, someone tell me the real name of the "porno push" - where I would have laid on my back, put my feet on my DB's shoulders, and they push me? or do they pull me? See... that's what you get when you learn from an instructor that is chumming the water each morning due to lots of Thai whiskey the night before. lol. (well, not really funny...)
While I don't think anyone should really be telling me I was not "ready to be a diver" (or shouldn't be) I do agree with the thought that I may have an AOW card, but that does not make an advanced diver. I didn't have this anxiety the 1st 2 years I dove. I didn't have a kid, either. I've done some pretty serious dives in Sipidan, and have 50 dives under my belt (all in oceans... not pond stuff, etc.) but all that says is that nothing went wrong and I was lucky. I can't believe some of the stuff I did when I look through my log book. Makes me even more grateful that this cayman incident was the worst that happened!
I have some verbage for instructors, take it or leave it... when you meet your divers for the 1st time, and they "announce" something, what are they REALLY saying? Are they looking to put some trust in you? Why you, why not themselves? And is that legit and warranted? Like when I said I had never done swim throughs and caves... I don't care if Discover Scuba folks dive that area (thanks for that BTW, nice) SOMEONE JUST TOLD YOU THEY WERE GREEN AT SOMETHING.
Ask them more about it. Talk it out. I would never take 10 minutes to explain my life story to a DM as we suit up, but I have mentioned my anxiety in the past and for the most part it went ignored. I'll tell ya... one of these days a DM is going to get a REALLY nervous twit that can't control themselves, and you've got yourself a sprinter at 80ft down! To me, a really good DM is someone who has a decent sense of who they are diving with.
How many of you dive with someone as your buddy when you only know their name? (I would hope, not many)
Anywho... I ramble... sorry...
(ps - I did talk to the shop, and just shared my concerns with no fingers pointed. They responded back quickly, and appropriately.)
While I don't think anyone should really be telling me I was not "ready to be a diver" (or shouldn't be) I do agree with the thought that I may have an AOW card, but that does not make an advanced diver. I didn't have this anxiety the 1st 2 years I dove. I didn't have a kid, either. I've done some pretty serious dives in Sipidan, and have 50 dives under my belt (all in oceans... not pond stuff, etc.) but all that says is that nothing went wrong and I was lucky. I can't believe some of the stuff I did when I look through my log book. Makes me even more grateful that this cayman incident was the worst that happened!
I have some verbage for instructors, take it or leave it... when you meet your divers for the 1st time, and they "announce" something, what are they REALLY saying? Are they looking to put some trust in you? Why you, why not themselves? And is that legit and warranted? Like when I said I had never done swim throughs and caves... I don't care if Discover Scuba folks dive that area (thanks for that BTW, nice) SOMEONE JUST TOLD YOU THEY WERE GREEN AT SOMETHING.
Ask them more about it. Talk it out. I would never take 10 minutes to explain my life story to a DM as we suit up, but I have mentioned my anxiety in the past and for the most part it went ignored. I'll tell ya... one of these days a DM is going to get a REALLY nervous twit that can't control themselves, and you've got yourself a sprinter at 80ft down! To me, a really good DM is someone who has a decent sense of who they are diving with.
How many of you dive with someone as your buddy when you only know their name? (I would hope, not many)
Anywho... I ramble... sorry...
(ps - I did talk to the shop, and just shared my concerns with no fingers pointed. They responded back quickly, and appropriately.)
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