I almost DIED in Grand Cayman!

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funkcanna... just a tip, when one states something, and then puts a "but" after it, it's called a disqualifier. Therefor, you meant to be rude. And you were.
You were not there and I was not asking if you, personally, thought I was going to die.
I thought I was going to die. I thought that prior to be UNCONCIOUS in the water, and even for a short time after I came around. To scoff at my situation is just silly and unwaranted.
 
davezwife,

I'm curious why you went ahead with dives when you were feeling anxious. What made you anxious to begin with, when you were feeling it? Was it always the conditions?

Do you think you crossed from anxious into panic?

One more, then I'm done. Did you learn in your dive classes that anyone can call a dive at any time for any reason? You only spoke of calling a dive once in your posts.
 
Just remember that everything in life is relative...what to you might seem as the "end of the world" experience, is nothing for someone else....some of us lives very sheltered diving lifes :)
 
When I could not remember the correct name for "the porno push" swim (or which way we should be facing to do it...) I knew the drunk idiot in Koh Tao, Thailand (OW) and the english hottie in Kota Kinabalu (AOW) should not have been instructors, nor I their student.


Porno push? What is that? I don't think my instructor mentioned it to us?? LOL:D
 
Let me first say that if you ever plan on being on the Big Island, want to get back into diving and have a day or two to spare, I think that we could solve these problems with ease ... I've done it before with folks who identified similar issues. No charge, just fun.

That said, might I recommend to you, "How we Decide" by Johna Lehrer? In it Lehrer, a neuobiologist, looks at how soldiers, pilots, quarterbacks, etc., behave "under fire." He clearly explains how we make decisions, what goes on in our heads as we do so, and how to become better at making critical life and death decisions.

Wat is it that permits one diver to calmly move through a problem to solution while another looses it? Let's accept the idea that everyone, in a dangerous situation, is afraid. As Mark Twain said, "Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear - not absence of fear." What modern neuroscience has found is that what people need to do is to learn to balance their visceral reaction against a rational and deliberate thought process that goes on in the prefrontal cortex. Some folks refer to this as metacongnition and people can learn to "metacognate." In fact, we recognize that ability in our descriptions of skill progression and expertise development. A while back I posted:
The definitions below are based in on nursing definitions that my wife turned me on to in: Benner, P (1984) From Novice to Expert: Excellence and Power in Clinical Nursing Practice, Menlo Park CA, Addison-Wesley

There was a time when a certified diver was competent, now they are almost always a novice, rarely a beginner. There was a time when an instructor was an expert, today one is lucky to find one that is proficient.

Novice: Diving knowledge is minimal and solely 'textbook.' It does not connect decisions with actions and ignores the context in which the action will be taken. The available suite of skills rigidly adhere to learned rules, other responses are not readily available. The possible use of knowledge for planning is without situational awareness and lacks discretionary judgment. The diver has available only rational decision making tools, nothing is intuitive or holistic. Individual actions are seen (and taken) in isolation with no conception of, or capability to deal with, complexity. Performance is unlikely to be satisfactory unless closely supervised.

Beginner: The diver has developed a working knowledge of key aspects of tasks and appreciates that complex diving situations exist. Since situational awareness is limited, all attributes and aspects tend to be treated separately and given equal importance. Though the begins to use global characteristics of situations that are recognized from limited prior experience, problems are primarily solved by using rote guidelines for action that are based on a situational attributes. The diver is starting to make rudimentary attempts to decide on appropriate actions in context, but is limited to applying actions as a series of steps, and thus can not be expected to successfully resolve complex situations. Though supervision is needed for the accomplishment of the overall task, straightforward tasks likely to be completed to an acceptable standard and the beginner is able to achieve some steps using own judgment.

Competent: The diver now has a good working, as well as some background, knowledge of diving and as a result can deal with knowledge in context. Recognition of relevance is now present. Actions are seen, at least partly, in terms of longer-term goals. The dive is able to cope with simple multiple, simultaneous, competing inputs. Sees actions (at least partially) in terms of longer-term goals. The diver performs best with standardized and routine procedures, but is able to achieve most tasks using own judgment and can engage in conscious and deliberate planning. Skills are fit for the purpose intended, though may lack refinement.

Proficient: Posses a depth of understanding of the disciplines that make up diving as well and those specific to diving so that the diver can make a holistic assessment in context rather than just an analytic one. The diver can deal with complex situations holistically, and decision-making is more confident. Performing to a fully acceptable standard is routine, as is seeing what is most important in a situation. Deviations from the normal pattern are quickly perceived. Decision-making is less labored. Maxims are used for guidance, but there is understanding that conclusions will (and should) vary according to the situation. The diver sees the overall 'picture' and how individual actions fit within it. The diver is able to take full responsibility for own work (and that of others where applicable).

Expert: The diver is capable of making correct decisions on an intuitive basis (e.g., no longer needs to rely on rules, guidelines or maxims) and posses authoritative knowledge of disciplines that make up diving that leads to a deep tacit understanding and a holistic and intuitive grasp of situations. In complex situations, the diver moves easily between intuitive and analytical approaches, using analytic approaches used only in completely novel situations or when problems occur. The diver sees the overall 'picture' and simultaneously grasps alternative approaches. Is comfortable taking responsibility for going beyond existing standards and creating original interpretations using a vision of what is possible. Excellence is achieved with relative ease.
It was not until I was turned on to Lehrer's work as a result of the recent U.S. Air ditching into the Hudson that made I made the link. What he addresses directly, are the items in my definitions that I bolded. Look at how the bolding grows as you move up the scale. I'm going to have to rewrite my defintions using Lehrer's metacoignition terminology. This will change soem of teaching approaches, hopefully for the better.
 
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davezwife,

I'm curious why you went ahead with dives when you were feeling anxious. What made you anxious to begin with, when you were feeling it? Was it always the conditions?
I'm new to this whole anxiety thing. I didn't want it to win, I guess. It all started with the Sipidan incident, where we were "left". (see initial story) and got exasperated by the aformentioned Belize dive this time around.
Big angry water + tippy toes that can't touch = scared mom. het het.


Do you think you crossed from anxious into panic?
Hell and yeah. I most certainly did, both from my standards, and what I read clinically about panic disorders. Never a touch of it in my other life, just dealing with diving. So far. Knock on wood.

One more, then I'm done. Did you learn in your dive classes that anyone can call a dive at any time for any reason? You only spoke of calling a dive once in your posts.Did I learn about that? No, not really. Fear was not an option in my classes. But then again, we've already determined that getting one's certs in places like Thailand and Borneo may not be the best idea. (I've had a DM kick off a chunk of coral one time I was underweighted... ack!) But in my mind, if I'm feeling miserable and I'm not even under yet, I'm not going. I'm stubborn Irish. We can't be pushed.

;-)

And Thal... I will consider your offer perhaps. I've had plenty of lovely dives, and someday I'll miss it. Even though I suspect you're one of those greek guys my mother warned me about! (lol, kidding, I dated one for 8 years... yikes)
I hear the Mantas are cool there, never seen one, and my brother/wife have always wanted to drag us with them to their timeshare there. We'll see. No promises. lol.
 
Porno push? What is that? I don't think my instructor mentioned it to us?? LOL:D
Maybe PADI changed the standards again for OW; to include more fun :D
 
David saved my life. Literally. Had it not been for his physical and mental strength, and his ferocious perciverence... I would have most likely died that day.
I am grateful for his strength, and most honored to be his wife.

Before we left on this trip, I just content being a mom, and hated to leave my baby. I was in one of those places where his snoring was driving me up the wall, and I think we often drove eachother nuts. We went on this vacation because GOOD MARRIAGES MAKE GOOD PARENTS. Obviously this event has greatly affected us. I think we're still in shock that it happened. We appreciate eachother once again. We're kind to eachother more often than not. We'd hold hands, but they're too swollen and painful, but maybe next week we will. The night after this happened, we were in our tiny ship room, and I was silently sobbing as the ship rocked us back and forth. I was alive. Ava still had her mom and dad. And David's ferocious snoring percivered, like the sweetest lullabye there was.


I know many people have posted about whether you should be diving, should ever have been diving, what was wrong, or whatever... but I wanted to post something different, for what it's worth, my thoughts for you. :coffee:


I have always been someone who firmly believes that "Everything Happens For A Reason". So try not to feel like what you are saying, about how it took this to change things... Sometimes it takes something major and life changing, bringing us to the brink and back again to make us see. For you this was one such thing. Life is about learning and growing, striving to be the best person we can be. It sounds to me that you learned a lot more than whether or not you should be diving again. Your story really touched me on a personal level. It's easy to go day to day with the people in our lives and not appreciate them, and not notice all the little miracles, and not be grateful for what we have right in front of us. You have been given the chance to see your world differently. Don't worry about what others have said about how it shouldn't have been a big deal, it shouldn't have caused you to panic. The truth is, everything happens for a reason.



So rest in the knowledge that you are safe, that you have a wonderful husband who loves you and would do anything to keep you safe. Those are precious gifts to have.



Thank you for bravely sharing your story. I'm sure others will learn from it as I have.



Tonight when I go to sleep, I'm sure I will listen to my husbands snoring and hear the sweet lullaby you describe, rather than become upset that I am still awake.
 
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To me the biggest issue here is you don't feel comfortable in the water, that would be the first error in judgment. The 2nd would be diving when you don't feel comfortable. The 3rd is making a dive as a tag along rather than a buddy.

Navigation IMO is a buddy task, if I'm following my buddy, I'm still watching my compass to be sure he isn't going off course.
 
;-)

And Thal... I will consider your offer perhaps. I've had plenty of lovely dives, and someday I'll miss it. Even though I suspect you're one of those greek guys my mother warned me about! (lol, kidding, I dated one for 8 years... yikes)
Naw ... slightly overweight, balding, white-whiskered, married for twenty years with a 12 year old son. My wife probobly wishes I was more like one of those Greek guys.:D
I hear the Mantas are cool there, never seen one, and my brother/wife have always wanted to drag us with them to their timeshare there. We'll see. No promises. lol.
 
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