Ice Diving Warning

[Col.Cluster]

WOW is that some nice vis.

But who's that doing the penetration?

Maybe someday when I grow up to become a real diver like TomR, I will Ice dive.

I also require 15 more pounds of insulation for my rather trim body.

That was Doctor Doug inside the wreck. It is easy to tell his bubbles have a destinctive pattern to them

All the best
CC

 

[Tom R]

Looks like the deck has been rebuilt... Last time I was on the kinghorn and it wasn't that long ago, the decking didn't look like it does in these photo's... These shots look like its fully intact.

This shot was taken right about the anchor damage done by a charter boat in the Brockville area, who throws anchors in wrecks anyway? Yes the Kinghorn has taken a beating in the last year, maybe time for some divers to take some skills based courses where they have to pass not pay for a card.

I gave a couple of lectures about diver pressure on wrecks, I show the orginal footage when she was found then the latest footage, it really drives home the point when you find out that we the divers destroyed her in less then in 8 years.

 

[knives]

Yes You better believe I will be taking the ice divng course that is coming up in Kingston Feb 28 at Northern Tech diver ....I can't wait to do it!!!!

For those interested in more info call for info or PM me or Tom R.

 

[DeepScuba]

I'm not sure I understand about the burn thing TomR?

I should also point out, from reading my previous post that the 15lb insulation thing was in no way to be misconstrued as a dig to anyone about their physical attributes. It was rather a "thing" I have to contend with that makes it a little tougher for me to stay warm.........I'm rather thin, and I require more insulation!

Anyways, just incase it got mis-directed, I thought I'd sort it out ASAP.

Looks like DansDive's crew, TomR and knives will be there.

I'll tell ya up front I ain't going (more than likely) it's too damn cold.

The vis is calling me though.


Oh yeah, TomR

Whats a buddy pair ;-)

I know yer thinking it!

Some day when I feel like becoming serious, I'll visit.

 

[Tom R]

I'm not sure I understand about the burn thing TomR?

I should also point out, from reading my previous post that the 15lb insulation thing was in no way to be misconstrued as a dig to anyone about their physical attributes. It was rather a "thing" I have to contend with that makes it a little tougher for me to stay warm.........I'm rather thin, and I require more insulation!

Anyways, just incase it got mis-directed, I thought I'd sort it out ASAP.

Looks like DansDive's crew, TomR and knives will be there.

I'll tell ya up front I ain't going (more than likely) it's too damn cold.

The vis is calling me though.

Oh yeah, TomR

Whats a buddy pair ;-)

I know yer thinking it!

Some day when I feel like becoming serious, I'll visit.

Better believe I was thinking it, I saw it remember hee hee.

Come and serve coco or coffee or even Irish afterwards, Lets have fun as thats what its all about.

 

[Eric__U]

good post james. Hoopfully i can see the wreck by the end of the summer if i can do it safely.

eric

 

[Silverback]

This shot was taken right about the anchor damage done by a charter boat in the Brockville area, who throws anchors in wrecks anyway? Yes the Kinghorn has taken a beating in the last year, maybe time for some divers to take some skills based courses where they have to pass not pay for a card.

I gave a couple of lectures about diver pressure on wrecks, I show the orginal footage when she was found then the latest footage, it really drives home the point when you find out that we the divers destroyed her in less then in 8 years.

I remember the wreck when it was fairly fresh, as I know what allot of the wrecks were like down in that area before this "anchor" started ripping them apart. Its a crying shame the way some of the wrecks have become...

I've seen big boulders sitting on her deck... mid ship looks like someone has set off charges on her... careless folks have done more damage then the 100+ years of her being down there. Even the ol' toilet isn't the same... Hey that was a good reading area.

Anyway... its still a nice dive and a good training area.

 

[Kevin R]

Great post James

To bad you couldn't make the trip today. Three of us did 45 min of training to get the ice and overhead skills back in shape.

Just to touch on one additional item. LIGHTS. As James pointed out, this is a serious overhead dive and all the rules apply. Minimum three lights are a must. 1 primary light, 2 backup lights. All are tested before entering. The primary light is turned on upon entering the water and stays on until the team exits. This light should be a cannister light with a goodman style handle so that both hands are free to perform other tasks. If there is a primary light failure for any reason during the dive, the dive is over and the team exits on backup lights. The exact procedures for this are taught during DIR-F, Tech 1 and Cave 1.

Contrary to popular belief, it does get dark in spots under the ice. In addition, if you need to get someones attention or, heaven forbid, a team member gets off the line a big bright primary light is easier to spot from a distance than a diver against a dark background.

The diver in the wreck in Tom's pics is my teammate Doug. Tom and I turned the dive that day and exited due to gear problems. Some days it happens, and as long as everyone gets out, it was a good day of diving. Training, experience and equipment are what ensure that everyone is getting out.

 

[pufferfish]

Ice Diving Warning

Gas management is critical for this ice dive. A growing number of us keep 200cft plus of back gas as reserve for this kind of diving. Folks, that means we use double tanks just for our reserve gas. We have done this dive many times using just back gas. The last time we had just made it to the wreck (800 ft and 12 mins out and away from the nearest exit), when 2 of the 3 man team had complete regulator failures. One diver was without gas, I had free-flows in both secondary regs. This left the other two divers on an air share and myself continually cycling through valve shut downs to clear the free-flows. It took 6 to 8 minutes to remedy the out of gas situation of the first diver. This left the third diver to monitor the two of us as we made our way out. I had to continually shut alternating regs to clear the freeze up all the way to the exit point, which we reached approx 22 minutes from the start of the first failure. In those 35 minutes I used 170cft plus of gas. Hence we like to keep all our back gas for reserve from now on.

James welcome back. Yes ice diving can be very dangerous if not done properly, so taking a course is definitely the way to go. I have to admit my passion for diving though stops as soon as the water becomes solid.

The dive you describe having completed would be best described as Tom R says, "diving skill at its highest level", and obviously you guys have skills that many of us probably will never have. I must say though despite this I had to read your incident report twice and then scratch my head as to what possible factors may have lead to this very bad situation. You did not offer up any explanation as to why a three man team of well trained tech divers 800 feet from an exit in an overhead environment (ice) in 100 fsw close to the freezing point had two regulator free flows, one which became an OOA situation. I thought I might offer my thoughts, but would be interested to hear your take or other's on the incident . This is not an incident that one would wish on anyone and could push even a very well trained diver towards that panic threshold, something we all should try to avoid. Great to hear that the three of you made it back to shore safely, but one really wonders what lead to this 'close' call.


It is probably safe to make the following assumptions about the equipment and dive technique in this incident.

1. You all had high performance environmentally sealed 1st stages and both stages tuned for such an environment.
2. Regs were not breathed until first stage submerged.
3. Wings were filled in small amounts on descent and never at same time as inspiration.
4. Swim to and from site was done in relaxed state by very fit divers so as to keep respiratory rate down and regulator flow rates.
5. Swim was done at shallow depths to minimize first stage flow rates and adiabatic cooling.

If these are correct then my take on the incident is that the only way two of three divers of this caliber could have had these regulator failures was from excessive humidity in the tank air or more specifically from a dewpoint that was above the temperature within the first stage. Adiabatic cooling of the first stage likely lead to a freeze failure of the first stage due to excessive moisture in the tank air. If your first stage through adiabatic cooling and cold water had been cooled to say -65F and your dewpoint was only -60F then you will be in big trouble if there is no thermocline above you. What is unfortunate is that this risk is often a blind one in that no amount of training or quality equipment can mitigate the risk. If the diver is unaware of the fact the dewpoint of his tank air may become less than the temperature of the first stage given the conditions then he will have a guaranteed regulator failure in this environment.

Personally I would not attempt this type of 'triple black diamond' dive unless one of the following conditions were met:

1. A recent air analysis no more than a week old showed a dewpoint of at least -65 F. What most divers do not realize is that the dewpoint on that certificate is only representative of the day the sample was taken. The longer the time frame from the analysis date the higher (less negative) the dewpoint will become and hence the greater the chance of reg freeflow. The natural history of filtration media over time is too become less efficient as oil and water are removed, and adsorbed by the drying agent and charcoal. What may have been very dry arctic air three months prior has now become tropical moist air only good for diving down south in warm water.

2. If I had to do this dive in an overhead ice environment where I knew I had a long swim to the site I would bring a portable Draeger tube colormetric water vapour test kit to analyse my air in the field prior to getting wet. The risks otherwise of not knowing the dewpoint are just too high and one ends up diving 'blind' despite all that training and gear.

3. If one had a personal hyperfilter (cost about 1K) with fresh desicant then this would offer the level of safety needed as well. This would be used between the LDS's fill whip and my tank. Any excessive moisture would be removed by the hyperfilter.


Call me anal but "things going wrong in the worst way" is definitely an understatement and not a situation especially if preventable one would want to repeat. Knowing one's tank air dewpoint in the field before entering into this extreme environment would seem like a simple manoeuver and aspect of gas mananagement worth examining.

Any other ideas?

 

[Tom R]

Interesting read that post Pufferfish but,

Sometimes it just happens "stuff" that is. During the month of Feb of last year I saw every major regulator available at the time free flow and that included the almighty Poseidon. Tanks were filled at different locations and regs were serviced by some of the best people in the business. Sometimes the weather gets you. No problems in Jan, Mar and so on it just was during the cold snap of Feb.

Again thanks for the education, more things to think of.