I'm interested in non GUE point of views on the RB80 rebreather

[Shawn@IReallyloveScub]

I recently was at EE for some GUE training and was shown the RB80 rebreather. I was interested in the design and technology, but I have no training in rebreathers. What I was told about the RB80 makes sence but I have nothing to base this on. Other rebreather technology seems heavy on relying on the equipment working with minimal bailout ability. I really liked the idea of having enough gas in tanks on my back on eather side of the rebreather to decompress if needed. Any advice on where to even start thinking about what direction to even think about going.

 

[bythesea]

I recently was at EE for some GUE training and was shown the RB80 rebreather. I was interested in the design and technology, but I have no training in rebreathers. What I was told about the RB80 makes sence but I have nothing to base this on. Other rebreather technology seems heavy on relying on the equipment working with minimal bailout ability. I really liked the idea of having enough gas in tanks on my back on eather side of the rebreather to decompress if needed. Any advice on where to even start thinking about what direction to even think about going.

You might consider reading up over at Rebreatherworld.com. Lots of info on all the various types and opinions on each unit in the different classes. Also lots of debate on the seige-V-alpinist schools for handling contingencies.
Regards, Brad

 

[Kevrumbo]

If you want to take rebreather training that's consistent and builds upon knowledge, skills and techniques learned starting with GUE-Fundamentals (and Tech1 & 2 prerequisites), then the RB80 Course through GUE is the way to go, albeit very rigorous, challenging and monetarily expensive.

The other option is to take instruction outside of GUE; here's one instructor I've heard of so far that might be able to certify you on the RB80/"Halcyon" Rebreather, through IANTD.

 

[caveseeker7]

The other option is to take instruction outside of GUE; here's one instructor I've heard of so far that might be able to certify you on the RB80/"Halcyon" Rebreather, through IANTD.

This is not RB80 training, but training on the Halyon/Brownies Third Lung PVR-BASC rebreather (aka Halcyon "fridge"), a rather large, passive semi-closed rebreather.

Pics at Rebreathers Worldwide, Janwillem Bech's excellent website.

The only non-GUE alternative would be one of several "RB80-inspired" SCRs.
Most all from Europe, many from Germany, all very low production.
For some training and certification is available, from IANTD and PSA-Europe for example.

 

[caveseeker7]

Shawn, IMHO the RB80 is one of the best rebreathers around for the very purpose it was designed and is build, deep exploration. The unit is very solid, quite simple, the water purge system is ingenious, the gas addition intuitive.

The downsides are the high price, and of course it's not failure proof. The fact that the RB failures have been incidents rather than (fatal) accidents is due to the very high initial training standards of GUE, continuing training and strict protocol of the divers who use them. So while that is expensive, too, the safety deriving from it is certainly the benefit. On pSCRs other than the RB80 there have been fatalities (including one on the "fridge" pictured above).

Still, the RB80 shares some of the dangers inherent to all rebreathers (and some extend, all diving) such as hypercapnia.

I do believe however that many of the risks are minimized and due to the training that you'll have to go through, should be easily managed.

Another downside are the shear size and weight, it's not the RB you want to haul around for trips to do photography on shallow reefs. The unit itself can be taken apart and will fit into your luggage, but you'll need a frame of some sort to mount tanks, and of course the tanks themselves which are usually full size. Smaller ones can be used, of course, but cut down the bailout gas supply. It all depends on the profiles and environment/locations you're diving.

You'll also need an ample supply of sorb to fill and refill the scrubber as its capacity is large to allow the long durations needed for exploration. Some will argue overkill on "lesser" dives.

As mentioned, the RB80 is very purpose build, divers using them generally use scooters (long before needing a RB), the butt-mounted counterlung is well located for that position. For photography on the other hand, where you can frequently be in odd position for a while to make an image or get shot, the hydrostatic resistance may be prohibitive, certainly less than ideal. Just not what the unit was designed for, though several people use them that way.

Personally for me and the dives I do I would consider the unit too large and bothersome to haul around, and to expensive to justify. Same for the training to be honest. I don't dive mix and don't explore.

Having had a look at two other passive SCRs, the RON and the Habanero, I have to say I do like the latter. The RON is quite similar to the RB80, and the builder actually in many ways shares Halcyon and GUE's philosophy regarding diving and rebreathers. The Habanero on the other hand is also marketed towards recreational profiles and nitrox gases in form of a smaller unit (less scrubber capacity) called Pinquin. Like the RB80 and RON, it has a P-port that allows installation of a pO2 monitor (GUE uses it for training purposes only, no electronics afterwards - one idea I don't share), the tanks are mounted on the unit itself rather than needing a frame of some sort. All of it making it a smaller, lighter, easier to travel with unit. Training/certification is through IANTD, so the quality it depends on the isntructor, but at least you'll have a c-card when or where you need it. The unit itself costs about half of what the RB80 sets you back, and is thus much easier to justify.

If I were to look for a SCR, it would be the ideal unit for the diving I do.
I would most certainly take it over any active addition SCR (Drägers, Submatix etc) as well as over some CCRs.

But by all means, the RB80 and the GUE training you'll need for it are as good as it gets for the diving the unit is supposed to do. No doubt in my mind about that.

 

[Mr.X]

Another downside are the shear size and weight, it's not the RB you want to haul around for trips to do photography on shallow reefs. The unit itself can be taken apart and will fit into your luggage, but you'll need a frame of some sort to mount tanks, and of course the tanks themselves which are usually full size. Smaller ones can be used, of course, but cut down the bailout gas supply. It all depends on the profiles and environment/locations you're diving.


Personally for me and the dives I do I would consider the unit too large and bothersome to haul around, and to expensive to justify. Same for the training to be honest. I don't dive mix and don't explore.

Having had a look at two other passive SCRs, the RON and the Habanero, I have to say I do like the latter. The RON is quite similar to the RB80, and the builder actually in many ways shares Halcyon and GUE's philosophy regarding diving and rebreathers. The Habanero on the other hand is also marketed towards recreational profiles and nitrox gases in form of a smaller unit (less scrubber capacity) called Pinquin. Like the RB80 and RON, it has a P-port that allows installation of a pO2 monitor (GUE uses it for training purposes only, no electronics afterwards - one idea I don't share), the tanks are mounted on the unit itself rather than needing a frame of some sort. All of it making it a smaller, lighter, easier to travel with unit. Training/certification is through IANTD, so the quality it depends on the isntructor, but at least you'll have a c-card when or where you need it. The unit itself costs about half of what the RB80 sets you back, and is thus much easier to justify.

But by all means, the RB80 and the GUE training you'll need for it are as good as it gets for the diving the unit is supposed to do. No doubt in my mind about that.

I'll add that Caveseeker's advice is spot on. The RB 80 is a terrific cave diving machine. If I lived in cave country and drove a pickup truck I'd have one. However, my diving often requires flights and boats. This makes the RB 80 prohibitive that way. The water shedding ability is terrific too.

I remember when people were using the older "fridge". It was a massive unit and ideally meant for someone who's a weight lifter and bigger than average size. Monstrous. You almost needed a sherpa to help you with all of trimmings on that RB.

X

 

[Kevrumbo]

I'd call to clarify, whether Joe Dituri trains & certifies on the old PVR "Fridge" or the latest Halcyon RB80 SCR Rebreather & STDE Swiss type clones.

 

[caveseeker7]

Somehow I don't see Halcyon accepting IANTD tickets when ordering an RB80, Joe Dituri's name on it or not.
Didn't realize STDE (manufacturer of the EDO-04) still sold rigs, their website hasn't been updated in a while.
Says they don't.

IANTD provides training/cert for the SCR100 Halocline and the before mentioned Habanero/Pinqin pSCRs.
PSA-E does the same for the RON.

Am not aware of any other unit/training/certification combos.

There was some problem with the units manufactured in Germany as they don't have CE certification. Most of the small shops building these rigs went offline. Don't know the status of them or their problems.

EKPP, the European Karst Plains Project dives pSCRs build by Reinhard Buchaly (the RB in RB80). Those are not commercially available units, they are solely for team members. The commercially available units are the RB80s from Halcyon. Training is done with him, no certification afaIk, but training is continous and rigorous. Team members get together for pool and open water training sessions.

There is a difference between trained, certified, and qualified.

 

[Kevrumbo]

Then Shawn's only viable option is to get qualified, trained and certified thru GUE along with the purchase of a brand-new RB80. The alternative is to buy a used unit, and go through the GUE route, or have someone apart from GUE show him how to "use it".

 

[caveseeker7]

Well, another option would be Andreas "Matt" Matthes in Mexico.
Highly experienced RB and cave diver and instructor, was a member of the Wakulla II project.
He owns Protec in Playa Del Rey, Q.Roo, and among several CCRs also dives and teaches the SCR100 Halocline. Might be able to help with RB80 info, too. Matt's a nice guy and am sure will answer inquiries regarding the unit and training.