I'm the Pariah again

[Mike]

However, if I was belittled by a captain in the manner Matt describes, I would have punched him right in the face, no questions asked.

See, even you're more civilized then me! I would have punched him in the throat.

If we were from Hong Kong we would have written him a Haiku.

 

[wedivebc]

I would have punched him right in the face, no questions asked.

And the Captain would have had the police waiting on the dock for you and you would be going to jail fir assault.
Thanks for posting though I'm sure all though the boat Captains on here are glad you have identified yourself.

 

[AaronRiot]

You missed the point. The scenario that the OP used to justify his urgency was that his buddy might be trapped underwater and exhausting his gas. That is an incredibly unlikely scenario. Nobody is arguing against taking responsibility for your buddy.

I am not even arguing that you should ignore that 1/100th of 1% scenario, but you do have to put it into perspective. Acting to rescue somebody who doesn't need rescue creates a new set of risks, as it did for the OP. Do the cost/benefit anaylsis.

I think I get you. Since this particular OP created a mythical scenario in his mind that is highly unlikely, we can ignore the lost buddy situation because that particular scenario is highly unlikely.

As for the second bit... Lost buddy = __________ standard action on ________ boat. I don't think Matt's dramatics would change the boat's protocols..

EDIT ^ Matt's dramatic language...

 

[FuzzyNutz]

Well, the OP could hear the captain. The obvious thing to do would be shout "lost buddy!"

OP did not try that.

Hmm... interesting...

This time some people on the boat saw me, and the captain came to the railing, and yelled, "Are you okay?" At this point, I thought, If I say I'm okay, then he's just going to turn around and ignore me, and my buddy will die. Besides, I'm not okay if my buddy is missing. So I yelled, "Is Joe on the boat?" Then he yelled even more loudly, "Are you okay?" Now I could tell he was irritated. I yelled, "Is Joe on the boat?" Somebody said "Yes", so I gave the okay sign.

 

[jonnythan]

Indeed. The OP yelled "is Joe on the boat," hoping the captain would infer the actual problem of lost buddy.

In reality, it didn't answer the question of "OK?" at all. Perhaps Joe had some medicine Matt needed, or Matt had some barotrauma on the way up and Joe was supposed to go fetch help or something. The captain had no idea. The captain needed to know whether the diver in the water he was looking at was OK, and the diver in the water did absolutely nothing whatsoever to communicate what the issue was, or whether there was an issue.

"I'm OK, but I've lost my buddy Joe" would have taken care of everything.

 

[diverrex]

And without knowing an appropriate signal, how exactly do you communicate this from 200 yards away? His options at that point are pretty black and white... either everything is ok or something is wrong, and he felt as though he needed assistance.

If a search was needed, it may have been delayed... but they then might also have had a head start on where to begin looking, since he's still in the general area.

I'm trying to visualize this event and put myself in the shoes of both Matt and the captain so I can learn from this. For instance, what if you happen to come across a diver who is so entangled in line that he can't be freed and no one has a cutting device (or add any detail you see fit to make the point that you need extra help from the surface for an emergency that must be handled underwater in a timely fashion). If I surfaced to get help from the boat and found that it was far away, I'd be waving my arms in distress like a madman. If I were the captain, I'd get the boat closer to the diver before sending someone in to rescue the person on the surface. At that point, I would assume you can communicate the real issue at hand and appropriately handle the situation. Am I wrong for thinking this?

After reading this thread, if I were in the above situation, I think I would give a variety of rotating signals - starting with waving my arms around (to get their attention... and like Matt said, to HOLD their attention), then the big OK sign, then the pick me up "field goal" sign... and I would repeat this sequence until they were close enough to where we can verbally communicate. Am I wrong for thinking this?

... and since I haven't commented on the aftermath of the incident, quite frankly because I'm only interested in the emergency issue at hand, I would like to add that Matt probably handled that better than me. I have the utmost respect for captains while on their boat. Paying customer or not, I will always immediately do what they say, no questions asked. However, if I was belittled by a captain in the manner Matt describes, I would have punched him right in the face, no questions asked.

Lots of situations are different and depend on the boat, how it is moored or anchored, etc. Where I dive if you did on the surface what you described above a very typical response would be for a DM to jump in the water likely with fins only and swim a rope out to you (I think that's what happened with Matt but can't remember for sure).

The boats I typically dive on if the Captain asks you what the okay sign is no matter how it is asked you answer him if you want to keep diving that day. It's your choice later if you decide not to dive on that charter again and the Captain's choice whether he'll take you again.

I've heard a Captain scream with profanity at a paying customer for not following certain directions. It was something like "someone dies on this site almost every year, if I tell you to do something you follow that direction. I'm not taking back dead divers". But with lots of profanity, That particular Captain is actually a very laid back great guy that people love to dive with.

 

[lowviz]

...//...I've heard a Captain scream with profanity at a paying customer for not following certain directions. ...//...

"I HATE being the dead fairy!" -Joe Terzuoli.

 

[vladimir]

I think I get you. Since this particular OP created a mythical scenario in his mind that is highly unlikely, we can ignore the lost buddy situation because that particular scenario is highly unlikely.

As for the second bit... Lost buddy = __________ standard action on ________ boat. I don't think Matt's dramatics would change the boat's protocols..

EDIT ^ Matt's dramatic language...

I honestly can't make sense of this. Was the first sentence an effort at sarcasm? I think I made clear that we can't "ignore the lost buddy scenario." It just doesn't require you to go into a near-panic as if your buddy is dying, just because he's separated.

I'm not sure I understand your equation there, either. The actions that Matt took included a second descent—solo—to look for his buddy, and his refusal to give the okay sign, which had the potential to initiate emergency procedures on board the boat, including sending a swimmer to rescue him. He wouldn't be changing the boat's protocols, but perhaps initiating an emergency protocol that was unnecessary.

For example, if a crewman has to swim to Matt, that guy puts himself at some small risk of drowning. And while he is in the water there is one less man on the boat to help the other divers board safely, to start a search for a missing diver, to track bubbles, etc. So responding inappropriately to the miniscule risk of Matt's imaginary scenario can create real risks of far greater magnitude.

 

[FuzzyNutz]

It seems as though some of you missed this part:

I have the utmost respect for captains while on their boat. Paying customer or not, I will always immediately do what they say, no questions asked.

---------------------------------------------------------

Lots of situations are different and depend on the boat, how it is moored or anchored, etc. Where I dive if you did on the surface what you described above a very typical response would be for a DM to jump in the water likely with fins only and swim a rope out to you

Good point, I really hand't considered this. But what if for whatever reason you need immediate help from a boat FAR away for someone else who is under the surface, what would you do?

 

[lowviz]

Matt,

If you ever want to try local diving, I'd suggest something on the Axel Carlson reef (NJ). I won't get lost. Let me know.

-However, I won't hold my breath waiting for your reply...

Dennis