Seems to me the donor in the first scenario, having trouble locating his misplaced octo was further aggravated by his donee buddy heading for the surface.
Immediate CESA Vs. looking for your buddy...
- Thread starter Bigeclipse
- Start date
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You have ended up with a distorted idea of how OOA works in BSAC and the purpose of the lesson.
The lesson is for the OOA diver to learn to take the octopus. It is done even that way (having previous be taught as a donate) because the dive with the gas may not be paying attention and the first reaction of the OOA diver should be to get gas for themselves.
The lesson is NOT to teach the diver with gas to ignore the OOA diver, they can donate or prepare the regulator to be taken if they have noticed. However, if they do that during the lesson it prevents the OOA dive learning to TAKE the regulator.
From the instructor manual:
“Use of AS, student as donor
This exercise teaches the most stressful of emergency situations requiring AS, where the recipient takes the donor’s AS from its stowage location and doesn’t wait for the donor to remove it and offer it.“
No distorted view at all....I was pointing out the importance of discussing how to handle an emergency such as an OOA situation during the pre-dive brief. I may have failed to make that point in my writing. The story, in a nut shell, is that I was trained differently and helping a BSAC instructor. I was unaware and uniformed of the difference in what is taught regarding air source sharing across different agencies at the time. So, as I was blowing bubbles and running out of air in my lungs, while expecting the diver with gas to move towards me and hand off their alternate air source/octo, that in reality was not going to happen because of how she was trained....she presented her octo by opening her arms and pointing the clipped off octo in my direction to facilitate me grabbing it. I am sure in the stress of an actual OOA emergency I would have swam over and grabbed at least one of her two 2nd stages, but because this was a drill this did not get to that point.
During this drill, the diver with gas, did everything she was trained to do. For me though, I was unaware of this significant nuance between training agencies and was confused by her actions. It has led me to ensure that what to do is a specifically briefed item during all pre-dive briefs that I give as any added confusion during an actually OOA emergency would be added stress that is best avoided.
The reality as well is that while I was happy to help out with the class, I probably had no business doing anything in the water other than acting as safety diver specifically for the instructor should he have had a problem with his gear or other personal emergency. I had no training under BSAC, still don't, and I was not a divemaster at the time either. Had things been better coordinated prior to the training dive perhaps the part you quoted from the instructor manual would have been briefed to me so that I would have known.
Again, it did not create an emergency, but it highlighted that not all organizations/agencies teach skills the same way. If one is going to dive with folks who do not have the same training background, one needs to be aware, even if just on a basic level, that these differences exist, and ensure that they are discussed prior to entering the water.
-Z
OP
Bigeclipse
Contributor
this makes no sense. My whole point was that I bet most recreational divers do NOT spend appropriate time training and practicing out of air drills which means when that situation actually occurs I bet the first instinct will be to swim up. It is for these people that I was thinking maybe a few CESA trainings may be worth it as a backup tool. I duno...again all just thoughts ive had.
The first instinct is always to swim up...that is how we are biologically programmed. One's capacity to keep your cool under pressure and engage cognitively to quickly and effectively evaluate the situation and determine your best options is what needs attention/training...
...actually, again my opinion, is that one's capacity to plan and execute a dive in such a way so as to avoid the need for that biological programmed response to be evoked is what needs attention/training.
Too many divers behave like sheep in the water, just following someone else with presumably more experience and with an expectation that person will keep them safe...they put little thought into dive planning and execution and put a premium on the "fun" aspect without much thought about the fact that they are entering a medium in which one cannot naturally survive. All is good until the s$%t starts hitting the fan....the analysis of many dive incidents is that the incident could have been avoided all together by proper planning and execution.
Look, @Bigeclipse, if you think that you are best served by practicing the crap out of CESAs then thats how you should spend your time. Be the best dang CESA capable diver on the planet. No one will fault you for that. And if you think certifying organizations should increase their focus and training time on this then write to them about it and share their response.
There are a handful of things in diving that people take a polarizing stance about. Views on safety tends to be one of them. I believe I have made my bias transparent, and I understand where your bias is...if you are comfortable with how you dive and train that is all that is really important.
-Z
Edited: I apologize to @Bigeclipse for making an assumption about his experience. I went back to his OP and my assumption was not readily supportable so I deleted the comment. I beg your forgiveness for my error.
OP
Bigeclipse
Contributor
I do not plan to do CESAs (all though I have practiced them in the pool quite a few times and a couple shallow ones (40ft) in lakes with my buddy). My buddy and I are on our way to technical certifications, so we do all sorts of drills (all with long hose, back mounted doubles and recently side mount...etc). Again, I am not advocating not practicing OOA scenarios and such with certifying agencies but I do feel they kind of breeze over CESA portions. Honestly, my views are that it is too easy to become certified in general but I understand why agencies do that because they are mostly in it for the money and likely would not get as many new divers. I mean that's how I was hooked. Local dive shop said "hey...come get SCUBA certified for a few class sessions and a few open water sessions and only a few hundred dollars". Before I knew it I was open water certified.
Dunno....I think training agencies have to apply balance to the varying topics they discuss and train in an open water certification program. How much focus on a topic/skill is enough? , how much is too much?, how much is not enough? Perhaps this is better thought out than either of us really knows.
The notion that it might be too easy to become certified in general is an interesting topic of discussion that can and probably should be split off into its own thread. I am sure lots of folks have opinions on this worth sharing...not that it will change much from the standpoint of the industry as I agree that it is driven by money and making certification less attainable will affect the bottom line of a struggling industry.
My personal view is a bit mixed. I believe that the majority of recreational divers do not take the risk of diving serious enough....but I also don't think one needs to posses a lot of knowledge to be able to safely explore the underwater environment.
Keep breathing and blowing bubbles.
Cheers,
-Z
dead dog
Contributor
If your wife pushes you too hard out of the window and you miss the pool and hit the deck.
Always be leary when your wife wants to add more insurance on your policy.
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