Instructor shoving people off lines

[Whitewatermike]

Unprofessional, unacceptable, and dangerous. Not sure I could have shown the restraint u/w that you did.

 

[vistasbelow]

physically pushing someone off the line is totally unacceptable but physical retaliation underwater is also unacceptable. That being said I would like to put in my two cents worth as a local instructor on Catalina Island. 95% of the classes that we do here locally are Discover Scuba dives with people who have never been on scuba before. standards require that we do skills at the top of the line about 3 feet underwater while holding on to the line. we do partial mask flood and clear, regulator clearing and regulator recovery. When we are doing those skills at the top of the line and someone comes to the bottom of the line and hangs there it completely engulfs me and my student with bubbles and reduces visibility to 0 and thus creats a very uncomfortable and unsafe situation for us. granted we are only 3 feet under and can surface easily, but it can friek a new student out and sometimes i have to wait for a very long time for that person below to leave before I can finish skills and continue on my dive. I can't just go down to the bottom and signal the person because I am with a student.

The lines are owned and maintained by the local dive shops and of course when we are not using them anyone can, but if you think you have to hang on a line that is set at 20 feet to do a safety stop (you don't!) at least look up and make sure there is not someone using the line at the top.

Please note, in a potential emergency situation like the original poster described; please by all means you have every right to do what you need to do. I am just talking about the people that come to the line and just hold it unnecessarily without checking to see if it is being used at the top.

 

[blue steal]

Thanks vistasbelow for your explanation.

 

[Power Scuba]

Vista,

Agree with everything you say except:

I understand the lines are maintained by the local dive ops... but how can they be "owned" by those same ops once they are placed in the Casino underwater park?​

 

[boulderjohn]

Next time pop his weights/belt. Few things could be more embarrassing than an instructor that loses his weights with students around. If he was on hid way down and at 15' no damage done but to his ego.

I am just curious as to what you would think would happen if the instructor popped to the surface, embolised, and died on the spot. (And that is certainly possible.) What would you say to the students about your decision? What would you say in court later on?

In case you are unaware of it, you can have an embolism in 1/3 of that depth.

 

[vistasbelow]

Vista,

Agree with everything you say except:

I understand the lines are maintained by the local dive ops... but how can they be "owned" by those same ops once they are placed in the Casino underwater park?​

The same way that if you brought your personal float and attached it to the bottom of the dive park in order to teach your class. The local dive shops could potentially do discover scuba dives 365 days per year therefore a more permanant dive line is called for, but it still belongs to the people who purchase the materials, install and maintain the lines. The dive park itself is owned by the city of Avalon but the park boudary lines, the stairs and the permanant dive lines are paid for and maintained by local divers, mostly the 4 dive shops that are there every day of the year. all the dive shops pay a percentage of sales to the city for what everyone does there icluding your tank rentals and air fills, so to an extent the dive shops have a bit of ownership in the dive park too.

 

[hoopa]

nope.. i dont agree with that at all vista. The difference is between permanent and temporary float/line.. Temporary line is for private use only.. Once that line is left permanently-- it becomes part and property of the park-- hence part of the state-- use for all tax paying citizens using the area... That is a state run and owned park.. No private entity can go in and permanently attach or control a line in that park-- if they could then people would just go and drop weights to create new moorings for their boats or any other anchorage based use they would want..Of course they cant do this cause the area is state owned and run... The maintenance of the park comes from both shops and private individuals who donate their time, along with some state paid employees... Also-- the dive shop does NOT pay the majority of fees and moneys paid for that dive park.. The tourists coming paying for food-- hotel-- shopping pay in the form of tax though their entire stay... I have personally spent maybe $20-50 in the dive shops yet average between $700-1000 per weekend (5-10x per year)--- as well as my group of friends that come with me, and a good number of other groups that are there-- having nothing to do with said dive shops.. If you want my opinion(im sure you dont at this point lol)--- i dont feel intro to scuba classes have any business being in the dive park.. Not only do they clog up stairs and entry/exit way(which isnt that big of a deal)-- but there is way to much opportunity for problems/injuries/trama to come up with waves/rocks/surges etc... If the dive shops want to do into to scuba groups-- they should do them off the beach--where the student can enter and exit easier(sand vs rocks)-- and go out and drop down there.. Get the city to give you some space there--- after all-- the scuba shops donated soooooo much money...

As for the op-- sorry you had that experience.. Shame you couldnt have found out who the instructor was.. But glad your friend is ok..

 

[blue steal]

I am just curious as to what you would think would happen if the instructor popped to the surface, embolised, and died on the spot. (And that is certainly possible.) What would you say to the students about your decision? What would you say in court later on?

In case you are unaware of it, you can have an embolism in 1/3 of that depth.

Hey boulderjohn. How about the other side. Instructor pushes an unknown diver off a line who is having trouble, said diver pops to the surface and "embolised". What does the instructor say in court? And to his "students" regarding his actions?

 

[Clammy]

Bill?

Vista,

Agree with everything you say except:

I understand the lines are maintained by the local dive ops... but how can they be "owned" by those same ops once they are placed in the Casino underwater park?​

 

[drbill]

nope.. i dont agree with that at all vista. The difference is between permanent and temporary float/line.. Temporary line is for private use only.. Once that line is left permanently-- it becomes part and property of the park-- hence part of the state-- use for all tax paying citizens using the area... That is a state run and owned park..

MAJOR error in your thinking here. The dive park is NOT a state owned or run property. Yes, the State ultimately owns it. However the ocean is part of the City of Avalon waters and the City has jurisdiction over them (as the State's agent). The State supplies no tax derived funds for its operations. It is strictly paid for by the City and the dive operators on the island. The only real stipulation made by the State is that no one can be charged a fee to access the waters in the dive park. That makes it difficult to generate funds to maintain the park since no annual or daily tag can be used, nor tax money specifically for the park.

I am a representative for a non-profit entity that has sought out leases for certain portions of the submerged lands off the island. Because the City controls the waters off its incorporated areas, it was much easier to acquire permission to use the submerged lands within its waters than those outside the incorporated city limits.