Integrated weights vs. old school BC's

[BadabingM3]

So I'm looking for a new BC. My two I have had for about 12+ years are standard vest typse with no integrated weights. I can see the pro's/cons of the integrated system but am a bit curious about how the trim weights are used that most of these BC's come with. Can anyone explain the theory behind the trim weights and how I should use them?

With my older vests, I seem to float a bit upright when cruising the reefs. I find myself having to pitch head over to keep myself a bit more level. Not sure if this is because I've got a weight belt on or what. Maybe it's the Mares vest I use? Not sure. So, I wonder if and how the trim weights on a new Integrated BC will help. Thank you for your inputs.

Rob

 

[Jim Lapenta]

I started out with an integrated bc and it was ok. The trim pockets on it did help a bit but with all of the weight in the bc it was damn heavy to lug around. Especially if diving dry. When I became a DM candidate I had to use a belt to demo it off and on. Then went to a BPW and belt. Now I own a Zeagle Express Tech in addition to 2 BPW setups and 2 other jacket bc's. One integrated one not. I never use the removable pockets any more. I find the belt more convenient, easier to get on and off, and since I set mine up with 4 pockets on it, much easier to adjust my weights to suit conditions and suit thicknesses. Integrated bc's are ok but with so many different types there is no standard way to release weights. As someone who has looked at a few accidents involving buddies who did not know how to dump the weights on their buddies gear, they did a check predive but never actually removed and replaced them as they should, I personally feel the belt is a safer option. See the tail, grab, pull, weights go bye bye. And belt is usually taught in every ow class. I'll never go back to using integrated unless you count that 6lb stainless steel plate on my back or my double steels as "integrated".

 

[RJP]

So I'm looking for a new BC. My two I have had for about 12+ years are standard vest typse with no integrated weights. I can see the pro's/cons of the integrated system but am a bit curious about how the trim weights are used that most of these BC's come with. Can anyone explain the theory behind the trim weights and how I should use them?

With my older vests, I seem to float a bit upright when cruising the reefs. I find myself having to pitch head over to keep myself a bit more level. Not sure if this is because I've got a weight belt on or what. Maybe it's the Mares vest I use? Not sure. So, I wonder if and how the trim weights on a new Integrated BC will help. Thank you for your inputs.

Rob

Sounds like the trim weight pockets might be just what you need. (Well, a BP/W is probably even better...)

Putting weight in the trim pockets will move that wightit closer to your head, thereby leveling you out a bit. You could also slide your tank up towards your head as well.

As Jim alluded to above, a BP/W will move at least 6lbs of weight off your hips and place it right over where your lungs are....which will surely help you trim out. A BP/W rig is also let buoyant that a padded/floaty BCD, perhaps by as much as four pounds. Net/net could be a shift of about 10lbs off your waist.

 

[spectrum]

ScubaRob09,

Everything about your dive gear will effect your trim. From negative fins to a thick hood or big buoyant mask.

First of all I advocate placing most of your weight on a belt or in a weight harness. First, if you even need to get out of your rig at depth it will be a lot easier to manage if you and your rig are close to neutral. Second, a BC with a significant weight load is a beast to handle. It's hard on the gear, the deckhands, you, everything, no good can come from it.

What you need to do from what I read in your post is move some of your weight higher on your body. This could be in trim pockets up on the back of the BC or it could be weights on an extra cam band around the cylinder. If you have some ankle weights putting 1 or 2 around the crown of the cylinder is a down and dirty way to test the effects. Remember that you are MOVING weight, not adding. Moving 6 pounds from my belt to trim pockets made an astounding change when I started to dive. Visualize your body as a see-saw and tip it accordingly.

All of this assumes that you already have the correct weighting. If you are over weighted then the combination of a heavy belt and excess BC bladder air volume will force you into head high trim.

Pete

 

[BadabingM3]

Question: what exactly is the BP/W?

 

[BadabingM3]

ScubaRob09,

Everything about your dive gear will effect your trim. From negative fins to a thick hood or big buoyant mask.

First of all I advocate placing most of your weight on a belt or in a weight harness. First, if you even need to get out of your rig at depth it will be a lot easier to manage if you and your rig are close to neutral. Second, a BC with a significant weight load is a beast to handle. It's hard on the gear, the deckhands, you, everything, no good can come from it.

What you need to do from what I read in your post is move some of your weight higher on your body. This could be in trim pockets up on the back of the BC or it could be weights on an extra cam band around the cylinder. If you have some ankle weights putting 1 or 2 around the crown of the cylinder is a down and dirty way to test the effects. Remember that you are MOVING weight, not adding. Moving 6 pounds from my belt to trim pockets made an astounding change when I started to dive. Visualize your body as a see-saw and tip it accordingly.

All of this assumes that you already have the correct weighting. If you are over weighted then the combination of a heavy belt and excess BC bladder air volume will force you into head high trim.

Pete

This all makes perfect sence. Thanks. Now that I think about it and analyze what you mentioned. It's probable that my weight belt may have been a few pounds heavy. I think a new vest is in order although it'll come with integrated pockets but the back trim pockets may be of good use. I need a new vest because my other one is 12 years old and a bit tight. But the trim pockets will subtract some of the weight off the belt. And yes, I do agree the belt is the best way to go allways. Thanks for the help.

 

[muddysquirrel]

Something that you'll die if you don't use..... at least according to a few threads.

A BP/W, or backplate and wing, is a modular, minimalistic BC composed of a plate (often steel or aluminum), air cell (or wing), and harness (either a "hog rig" or simple 2" webbing, or a more complex padded harness). I dive one because it's simple, streamlined, and the steel plate takes 6 lbs off my belt. YMMV, but BP/Ws tend to work very well for most who try them and are in the majority in technical diving.

Run a quick search if you have any more questions, there are literally hundreds of threads devoted to BP/Ws.

 

[TSandM]

ScubaRob, BP/W stands for backplate and wing. This is a modular back-inflate BC system, that consists of a metal or plastic rigid plate with slots for some type of harness, and a separate flotation bladder (wing) that attaches to the plate in some fashion. Backplate systems are popular in places where people dive in cold water, because a plate can be made of stainless steel, and therefore it can comprise some of the ballast you need to carry. In addition, the system usually has no intrinsic buoyancy (so you don't carry weight to sink the BC), can put weight up over your back, where it aids with trim, and is modular, so you can own multiple wings with lift capacities calibrated for the different environments in which you dive.

There are many fans of backplate systems here on ScubaBoard (including me), and whenever we see someone asking how to solve a problem with a standard BC that is inherently solved in the nature of a backplate system (like trim weighting) we tend to recommend them. You can, however, solve your problem with what you have. It may just take a little more creativity.

 

[T. Bix]

This all makes perfect sence. Thanks. Now that I think about it and analyze what you mentioned. It's probable that my weight belt may have been a few pounds heavy. I think a new vest is in order although it'll come with integrated pockets but the back trim pockets may be of good use. I need a new vest because my other one is 12 years old and a bit tight. But the trim pockets will subtract some of the weight off the belt. And yes, I do agree the belt is the best way to go allways. Thanks for the help.

Rob, Pete is dead on find the best set up and trim for your dive profile. Try to trim yourself neutral or as near as you can and then get you preferred bouyancy/tank system as near neutral as you can. Then move your weight around so you have your preferred attitude in the water. To re-iterate what Pete is saying you prolly need to move some weight upward to get away from the "seahorse" style trim configuration. A BP/W set up is not the answer to all trim/bouyancy issues..... practice and attention to detail is the answer your answer may be BP/W but only you can answer that. There are lots of us that dive both or all gear configurations with great success........ Find what works and use it..... Don't let the "experts" (including me) convince you that there is only one flavor of cool-aid and you're a loser if you don't drink it!

Dive safe, Dive often
bix

 

[Abaco24]

Why has no one mentioned a "Horse shoe"? My first rig was a plastic BP strapped to a US diver Aqualung 80, with a us divers BC black and yellow with a crotch strap, lead weight belt, dive watch and strap on depth gauge and the tables. Guess I need to go to the crabby old 50 plus group early?

If you had to drop your weights you just clipped one buckle, screamed all the way up, which kept your lungs from exploding.

No one then assumed you had DCS unless you couldn't handle drinks later on

Diving is supposed to be a fun sport, today it seems to be just scare the crap out of people here to the point they are scared **** less to dive at all.