Is a group leader (DM) usually expected on a boat?

[donooo]

Gee Walter,
1)Unfortunatly if you put 8 people in a group that have no experience diving together, different experience levels, a couple of air hawgs and a couple of non-consumers, they have trouble staying together.
2) I also agree with Darwin and the survival of the strongest or smartest or fittest.
3) Now we have to get the rest of the world to agree that Cozumel is not Drift Diving or at least to quit calling it that.

Love your thoughts Walter, just talking reality.

don O

 

[Charlie99]

According to the DM manual, a DM may be stationed wherever is best for overseeing the group.

I recall doing a few dives in the Middle Keys where a DM wanted to tag along with me and a couple of insta-buddies. He said something being able to come along, because there were just 2 or 3 customers onboard, but that if there were more than 6 passengers, he was required to stay onboard in case someone needed assistance on the surface. Most of the time he had to stay on the boat, and was delighted that he was able to get in the water for a change.

It wasn't clear whether this "stay on the boat if more than 6 in the water" was 1) a recommendation by some certifying agency, or 2) the Captain or boat owner's rule, 3) some Coast Guard rule, or 4) just a local practice.

 

[ScubaJackie]

If you are worried about not having a dive master in the water with you the solution is easy. Do what I did...marry one!

 

[friscuba]

Here on Catalina DM's are only in the water on guided dives. Boats do three unguided dives or two guided dives a day depending on the number of passengers on board. An individual can always request a guide.

According to the DM manual, a DM may be stationed wherever is best for overseeing the group. On commercial dive boats that is often on board since there may be several individual groups going off in different directions at a dive site and it is easier to watch them from that perspectove.

I'm not trying to criticise here, but I'm curious as to the level of "overseeing" that can be done when watching several groups of bubbles from onboard. Assuming water conditions are such that the DM can actually follow all sets of bubbles, are they hopping in to assist at the first sign of heavy breathing or a freeflow? How much can they tell what's going on underwater? Do onboard DM's actually ever assist under-the-water divers, or do they more or less perform body retrieval functions and tired diver on the surface assists?

I've always been curious about that. Guided group dives are the standard where I work, but I know that's not the case everywhere. It would be nice if all certified divers were fully capable of taking care of themselves in all situations, but in the world I'm familiar with, it seems that in-water DM's do a lot of minor assists underwater that prevent little problems from becoming big problems.

I'm sort of curious as to how often there are troubles on the boats where the DM isn't in the water with the group.

later,

 

[Walter]

Gee Walter,
1)Unfortunatly if you put 8 people in a group that have no experience diving together, different experience levels, a couple of air hawgs and a couple of non-consumers, they have trouble staying together.
2) I also agree with Darwin and the survival of the strongest or smartest or fittest.
3) Now we have to get the rest of the world to agree that Cozumel is not Drift Diving or at least to quit calling it that.

Love your thoughts Walter, just talking reality.

don O

I wouldn't put groups together. There's no reason divers can't form their own groups. Eight is too many to be in one group. Smaller groups are much better.

 

[friscuba]

I recall doing a few dives in the Middle Keys where a DM wanted to tag along with me and a couple of insta-buddies. He said something being able to come along, because there were just 2 or 3 customers onboard, but that if there were more than 6 passengers, he was required to stay onboard in case someone needed assistance on the surface. Most of the time he had to stay on the boat, and was delighted that he was able to get in the water for a change.

It wasn't clear whether this "stay on the boat if more than 6 in the water" was 1) a recommendation by some certifying agency, or 2) the Captain or boat owner's rule, 3) some Coast Guard rule, or 4) just a local practice.

It could be a little of both. I think, depending on how the local CG commander interprets the rules, there may be rules on the need for onboard crew when there are more than 6 passengers....

In Hawaii, most all of the dive companies have had in water DMs for years. Back a couple years ago there was an incident off Molokini where a DM went down with his group and got caught in the current off the point and went out to sea while the Captain maneuvered the boat towards his usual rendezvous point. This ended up with a group of divers being lost at sea for about 7 hours.

At that point the Coast Guard changed the way they read the regulations and informed the dive operators in the state they would have to have a "spotter" on board any time there were more than 6 divers. Most of the larger companies have written for, and been given, exemptions that allow thier additional crew to be in the water in cases where the boat is moored and the dive begins and ends at the mooring.

 

[Walter]

It would be nice if all certified divers were fully capable of taking care of themselves in all situations, but in the world I'm familiar with, it seems that in-water DM's do a lot of minor assists underwater that prevent little problems from becoming big problems.

I'm sort of curious as to how often there are troubles on the boats where the DM isn't in the water with the group.

later,

It would be nice. It would also be easy to accomplish. First, start teaching to a higher standard. Second, stop babysitting divers.

 

[wreckchick]

Walter,

I appreciate where you're coming from with this, but the reality is these are the divers we have. If the entire industry started throwing people off the boat and wishing them luck, I think we'd have a crisis on our hands.

The main reason the Keys can get away with non-guided dives is because we have pretty benign conditions. Our reefs are shallow and we don't deal with a lot of current. If we were wall diving, like some places, I think doing the guided thing is going to be the only way to keep people from doing stupid things.

Even if every single instructor on the face of the earth decides to teach to the "higher standard" you speak of, it won't help anyone who was certified before RIGHT NOW. What are we going to do? Revoke the c-cards or set an expiration date so we can recertify everyone?

Rachel

 

[Walter]

Well Darlin', not to worry, neither is going to happen. If it did, those who needed babysitting would either stop diving or get trained.

BTW, there are some pretty challenging dives in the Keys. There are other areas with challenging conditions where no one babysits divers.

 

[Web Monkey]

Even if every single instructor on the face of the earth decides to teach to the "higher standard" you speak of, it won't help anyone who was certified before RIGHT NOW. What are we going to do? Revoke the c-cards or set an expiration date so we can recertify everyone?
Rachel

Re-taking the OW exam and demonstrating skills every 2 or 3 years sounds like a great idea!

Good divers would consider it an extra chance to get into the water, and marginal divers would get a chance to do a "SCUBA Skills Update" class.

The exam could even have extra questions about "How to not get killed doing dumb things"

Terry