Hey TT, for what it's worth; as you might expect from reading my posts I took a personal interest in my buddy's health. At the time I recommended he try alpha lipoic acid and chromium picolinate. He said the supplements were "helpful" and continued with them for some time after.
Is it safe to administer IV's underwater??
- Thread starter TRUETEXAN
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Interesting question with great answers!
Agee with DocVikingo - this should not be done.
As usual Ralph Cohn has hit the nail on the head - gravity systems would not work.
I've answered a similar question before about how to keep from getting a dry mouth or getting thirsty.
The answer is to include a water bottle with a nipple tube in your BC. The GI tract is a much safer way to hydrate than the venous system.
The "CamelBak's UnBottle® Hydration System. " http://everestnews.altrec.com/shop/dir/0/92/
Best:
scubadoc
Agee with DocVikingo - this should not be done.
As usual Ralph Cohn has hit the nail on the head - gravity systems would not work.
I've answered a similar question before about how to keep from getting a dry mouth or getting thirsty.
The answer is to include a water bottle with a nipple tube in your BC. The GI tract is a much safer way to hydrate than the venous system.
The "CamelBak's UnBottle® Hydration System. " http://everestnews.altrec.com/shop/dir/0/92/
Best:
scubadoc
DivingDoc
Contributor
Hmmm -- this was my thought also. The fluid in the IV bag would be subjected to the water pressure. I do not know enough diving physiology to know if a diver's blood pressure matches the pressure of the ambient water or whether it is higher or lower. If it is lower, then the IV fluid would essentially be pushed in. If it is higher, then blood would go from the diver's veins into the IV bag -- something you don't want.
With DocVikingo, I also wonder whether there is something about your condition wbesides the diabetes that is making you prone to dehydration severe enough to require IV fluids. There is a condition called "inapropriate secretion of ADH (antidiuretic hormone)" which could cause excessive dehydration. Alternatively, perhaps your diabetes is not under as good control as you think. Do you check your blood sugars frequently? What have your HbA1C's been running?
I should think that it would be possible to take along a water bottle or Gatorate bottle of the type that has the little pop-up top that you can squeeze into your mouth. You could take your reg out of your mouth temporarily like you would to blow up a buoy and take a drink from your bottle by squeezing it into your mouth.
VTWarrenG
Guest
DivingDoc,
Blood pressure is always higher than ambient pressure -- that's how circulation happens.
In topside IV systems, the bag is located above the patient, and gravity generates the pressure differential to overcome blood pressure and push fluid into the bloodstream.
Underwater, gravity still works the same, and the increased ambient water pressure would have no effect on the feed -- but buoyancy forces would. In fact, buoyancy forces control the feed of topside IV's, too -- the volume of air displaced by the IV fluid weighs much less than the fluid itself, so the fluid flows downward -- just like a rock sinking in a lake. The IV fluid will not flow underwater, though, because the fluid experiences a buoyancy force that is approximately the same as its weight.
Consider the following thought experiment:
Take a tube -- say, an IV tube -- and attach two flexible plastic bags to either end. Consider the lower bag to be your body, and the upper bag to be the IV bag. Fill the tube and bags with water, and color the upper bag's fluid if you'd like. Put the whole mess underwater, and look what happens: nothing (other than your coloring diffusing about). The fluid in both bags is neutrally buoyant (i.e. "is weightless") underwater, and without the buoyancy force, the fluid will not flow.
In fact, because your body mechanically produces a higher-than-ambient blood pressure, a real underwater IV would just result in blood flowing easily into the IV bag. The only way to overcome this would be to use a pump that creates an IV fluid pressure higher than blood pressure.
- Warren
Blood pressure is always higher than ambient pressure -- that's how circulation happens.
In topside IV systems, the bag is located above the patient, and gravity generates the pressure differential to overcome blood pressure and push fluid into the bloodstream.
Underwater, gravity still works the same, and the increased ambient water pressure would have no effect on the feed -- but buoyancy forces would. In fact, buoyancy forces control the feed of topside IV's, too -- the volume of air displaced by the IV fluid weighs much less than the fluid itself, so the fluid flows downward -- just like a rock sinking in a lake. The IV fluid will not flow underwater, though, because the fluid experiences a buoyancy force that is approximately the same as its weight.
Consider the following thought experiment:
Take a tube -- say, an IV tube -- and attach two flexible plastic bags to either end. Consider the lower bag to be your body, and the upper bag to be the IV bag. Fill the tube and bags with water, and color the upper bag's fluid if you'd like. Put the whole mess underwater, and look what happens: nothing (other than your coloring diffusing about). The fluid in both bags is neutrally buoyant (i.e. "is weightless") underwater, and without the buoyancy force, the fluid will not flow.
In fact, because your body mechanically produces a higher-than-ambient blood pressure, a real underwater IV would just result in blood flowing easily into the IV bag. The only way to overcome this would be to use a pump that creates an IV fluid pressure higher than blood pressure.
- Warren
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Hi Warren,
Of course the force of gravity is not suspended by the water column.
However, the buoyancy forces issue makes sense.
Thanks for the discussion.
DocVikingo
Of course the force of gravity is not suspended by the water column.
However, the buoyancy forces issue makes sense.
Thanks for the discussion.
DocVikingo
Laurence Stein DDS
Medical Moderator
In case anyone is interested, I often use a small Camel Back system when diving shallow water for long periods. Usually I'm after lobster and work ledges for long distances. Bottom times in 30 fsw are in excess of an hour and a half-2 hours with a Pressed Steel 131 and a + fill.
It's a great way to get rid of the cotton mouth and rehydrate.
I don't recommend the use of Gatoraid or other FERMENTABLE drinks (or for that matter fermented drinks ). Every once and a while I find out that I forgot to drain the bag. If it had been Gatoraid, it would have turned to Gatorbrewski! Ugh!
The full bag also works as great spine protection when you are suited up on the boat and waiting for your buddy who's "O" ring just blew to change his gear.
You can also use it as a pillow for the trip in if you're anti social.
It's a great way to get rid of the cotton mouth and rehydrate.
I don't recommend the use of Gatoraid or other FERMENTABLE drinks (or for that matter fermented drinks ). Every once and a while I find out that I forgot to drain the bag. If it had been Gatoraid, it would have turned to Gatorbrewski! Ugh!
The full bag also works as great spine protection when you are suited up on the boat and waiting for your buddy who's "O" ring just blew to change his gear.
You can also use it as a pillow for the trip in if you're anti social.
jashanley
Registered
The kidney is an amazing organ. A person with normal functioning kidneys would have to drink in excess of 18 (eighteen) Liters of fluid to overcome the ability of the kidney to dilute the urine and get rid of excess fluid. Honestly, I think I speak for the majority when I say no one here wants to have to deal with that much fluid whether it is going in :boozer: or on its way out. :flusher: It would make for a very boring day in my opinion. :drown:
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