LDS sponsored trips

[Tropicalwolf]

4. Some feel obligated to do the group thing

Agreed! Why is it that if you do the "adult" thing and simply say that you'd rather spend your time doing something else, alone (that does not interfere with the group) that you are hounded and made to feel like bad? Just one reason I hate traveling with groups...transport at location is also an issue since usually there is a single communal car. Good thing cabs exist!

 

[humanbeing]

You could always save some money and do more dives locally (if you live in a locale that offers such things). Hehe, sorry to be such a debbie downer. Do your thing!

 

[EastTNDiver]

I have thought about this a little more since my original post and I have noticed at a couple bigger resorts that people with a big group got a little special treatment so that and if traveling as a group appeals to you you might consider paying for the service the LDS is offering.

I'm personally a self serve kind of person. I don't go to the full serve gas pump or have a valet park my car (if there is a choice). I like to set my own gear get my own tanks. These are all services I'm just not willing to pay for.

If I where going somewhere that needed special visas or security etc then I would also pay for the service of the lds to make arrangements.

This is a very good point. If a resort is familiar with your LDS because they've been there a good bit, chances are you might receive some level of preferential treatment...or, at least get a quick pass thru some of the tedious stuff. For example, we're going with our LDS on a trip where the resort requires an orientation dive. For most people, this means no diving on the day of arrival, as the orientation dive is the next morning. For our group, the LDS has been there so many times, the resort trusts him to give his group their orientation dive, so we'll be diving on day of arrival. BTW, my LDS only tacks on $25 over what I could book it. Sure, he may get a free spot too, but that's really none of my business and I don't care if he doesn't "split it" with the rest of the group. I mean, I wouldn't be getting that discount otherwise, and I think of it as part of his revenue. People that get pissed the LDS is getting a free spot, should try running their own dive business for a while, spend their dive vacation fielding complaints, tend to problems that pop up on the trip, blah blah blah...and then get back to us on the topic.

 

[oly5050user]

They expect to be compensated Really, then why do so many pass on the savings to the divers?

I would believe this statement is why many of us have a problem; well, at least I do.... Since both my wife and I dive, I end up paying twice for everything from trips to equipment. But then its my right to forgo these dive trips... It is also my right to buy strictly from the internet and bypass my LDS all together since I usually pay an up charge along with taxes!

For the most part, all of my purchases are from my LDS but there some exceptions... I am a grown man who is quite capable of arranging my own dive trips as a veteran of 30+ countries. There is no perk for me going with the LDS, none!

As a business, I can see where the LDS is a benefit to those who dive 2-3 times a year as I said in another post... I also see where this is a benefit to the LDS as those divers would be looking for new equipment and new training. I guess your next suggestion would be to arrange my own group trips which would not be a problem for me; you don't believe I would be more than willing to help others especially since they would all be friends or that we would help each other?

I see that you’re an "instructor" who I would expect benefits from these free trips... I guess the next argument will be that if we don't support these LDS with trips and equipment purchases that all of the LDS's will go out of business and where will we get our air??? As long as there are divers there will always be places that provide air... maybe right in my garage!!!

Respectfully,

How do you know the savings is passed on?Because they tell you so?? ..
Why get all upset?? it is a business. Did you not read where I wrote that if a single is traveling, going with a group can be less expensive as they avoid single occ rate??
People on my trips earn ow certification dives,or advance cert,or specialties at no charge.Yes I am an instructor, as ans such go often as guide on these trips.The cost does not come out of the customers pocket as the resorts comp me for these groups.For anyone else to run a trip on their own, feel free to do so,but remember that if you sponsor a trip and run it as a "tour leader" compensated or not ,you may be putting yourself in a situation where liability insurance as a dive pro may help.IF you wish to do it yourself, I have absolutely no objections to it,want to get your gear via internet,again I have no problems with that.Just do not whine about it.
One resort I frequent my divers can start diving immediately on arrival after I give them an orientation, and start diving,at NO extra cost for the extra day(we pay for 6 days of diving and get 7 days)..One year I had my group and a " NY/NJ club" trip on the same flight,staying at the same resort.My people started diving within 2 hours of arriving on island,the other group had to wait for the next day as the resort only offers their orientation at a certain time and that time had passed. When the other group questioned why my people were allowed to start diving and that they had to wait till the next day,the resort answered that "they are with him" and pointed at me. Being friends of the management at the resort can have some perks!.

 

[BDSC]

I'm firmly in the camp of booking my own trips and also setting up group trips. I have always been able to do it cheaper than the LDS. It really takes very little effort to put together a trip.

I am going with a group of 18 this Saturday to Roatan. It started with 6 of us deciding to go and me calling the resort I had decided on to negotiate a price. I told them right up front that we are starting with 6 but it could increase. The resort had 10 rooms left and said they would hold them for me for several weeks. Right off the top they took 10% off the rate and then said for every 5 people I could get to go I could have a free spot. So I did the math and called them back and told them rather than worrying about free spots, the math works out to XXX each based on 6 people going at a rate of 5 people paying. They were good with that and I got the word out to a few friends. In less than a week we were at 18 people.

This is the way I like to do things. No one goes for free. We all pay the same rate and enjoy the discount equally. The reason many of the trips I put together fill up so fast is because folks know they are getting the best deal possible. I did the same thing this past May at Little Cayman and filled up my spaces as well. I think people really appreciate the fact that everyone pays the same. And by not going thru a LDS where many times the resort will pay them a commission of 10% or more, they will discount our rate by that same amount.

So how involved was all of this? I'd say it took me about 2 hours of my time total between phone calls and e-mails. It really is pretty easy to do.

 

[fnfalman]

If I were an instructor or dive master (which I am not and probably will never ever be because I refuse to deal with idiots while making chump change - lots of respect for Instructors and DMs), and I were to go on these "vacation" trips for "free" but then I have to act as tour guide, as babysitter, handler, ad nauseaum. It ain't a "vacation" any more, and it's stopped being "free" because I would be working instead of sitting back and enjoy myself.

 

[boulderjohn]

I am a contract instructor who is associated with a dive shop.

I have gone on several trips as a customer, and it would not surprise me if people assumed I was getting some kind of special deal. I was not. I paid the same as everyone else, to the penny.

I have led two major trips. In those cases, My fares and expenses were paid. My wife (a non-diver) went on each trip, and she paid the full price except for diving expenses. On those trips I taught a number of courses and issued a number of certifications. I was not paid for those courses or certifications--it was considered part of my job.

I have led several shorter trips as well. Same deal as above.

Both major trips I led were, IMO, not set up with the best eye to the market, and the shop barely broke even because of the number of people attending--if they did break even.

I know the shop is doing all they can in terms of brainstorming to make this work out better. There is an expectation that these trips will be provided as part of their total package of service, but they are having a very hard time making it work financially.

EDIT: On one of the trips mentioned above, the shop decided at nearly the last minute to raffle off a spot on the trip as a door prize at a social event. It didn't cost them anything to do this because they had had to fill a certain number of spots, and they didn't have enough people as it was. The move paid off when the winner brought a date.

 

[lsorenson]

How do you know the savings is passed on?Because they tell you so?? ..
Why get all upset?? it is a business. Did you not read where I wrote that if a single is traveling, going with a group can be less expensive as they avoid single occ rate??
People on my trips earn ow certification dives,or advance cert,or specialties at no charge.Yes I am an instructor, as ans such go often as guide on these trips.The cost does not come out of the customers pocket as the resorts comp me for these groups.For anyone else to run a trip on their own, feel free to do so,but remember that if you sponsor a trip and run it as a "tour leader" compensated or not ,you may be putting yourself in a situation where liability insurance as a dive pro may help.IF you wish to do it yourself, I have absolutely no objections to it,want to get your gear via internet,again I have no problems with that.Just do not whine about it.
One resort I frequent my divers can start diving immediately on arrival after I give them an orientation, and start diving,at NO extra cost for the extra day(we pay for 6 days of diving and get 7 days)..One year I had my group and a " NY/NJ club" trip on the same flight,staying at the same resort.My people started diving within 2 hours of arriving on island,the other group had to wait for the next day as the resort only offers their orientation at a certain time and that time had passed. When the other group questioned why my people were allowed to start diving and that they had to wait till the next day,the resort answered that "they are with him" and pointed at me. Being friends of the management at the resort can have some perks!.

Why get all upset??? I guess it’s because I love to dive… I learned my lesson when it comes to the LDS setting up a dive and I know some will benefit from it but it’s not for me… There were several incidents that occurred during the week but I am going to leave it at that… I/we will continue to setup our own dives and if others want to come along then please do…

Your are right… It’s a business!

Oh, and one more thing... I think if you provide training or provide some value to those in the group, then I would have no qualm... but, if you only go along for the ride and take up space then I do/would have a problem! Maybe this is the real underlying issue for me....

 

[Kingpatzer]

For the most part, all of my purchases are from my LDS but there some exceptions... I am a grown man who is quite capable of arranging my own dive trips as a veteran of 30+ countries. There is no perk for me going with the LDS, none!

Then don't go. Really it's that simple. Why are you complaining that a business is *gasp* making money?

Oh, and for the record -- plenty of times the LDS's both make money and pass on savings. When you're booking trips a year in advance, sometimes the prices go up, sometimes they go down. Hotel rooms and dive boats are kind of like commodities that way.

I see that you’re an "instructor" who I would expect benefits from these free trips...

Yes, all the benefits -- it's all completely free and no work or worry on instructors who travel at all. They just pay my own airfare and lounge in luxury on a worry free vacation where they don't have to answer to anyone at all!

Now, where's that sarcasm smiley?

I guess the next argument will be that if we don't support these LDS with trips and equipment purchases that all of the LDS's will go out of business and where will we get our air??? As long as there are divers there will always be places that provide air... maybe right in my garage!!!

No, my question is why the hostility? The shop is going to the trouble and risk of arranging a trip. They are going to do work. Do they owe you because of your charming personality and gracious ways?

 

[BDSC]

Agreed! Why is it that if you do the "adult" thing and simply say that you'd rather spend your time doing something else, alone (that does not interfere with the group) that you are hounded and made to feel like bad?

I have seen this happen more than once. That's one downside of going with a local shop. You have no control of who signs up and of course you shouldn't have control because it is their trip. And like you said, if you don't participate in the "group thing" you are frowned upon. Over the years I have met some really nice folks on trips and as time has gone by, we have formed a core group of divers who have similar interests and really enjoy each others company. I now have a list of 16 to 20 people who always want to know where we are off to next and we are all adults. If people want to do things as a group then fine. If not, that's fine as well and we all understand this.

There are just so many advantages to travel this way and no downside at all. I can negotiate very good prices at many resorts and we all benefit from the free spaces and discounts.

I see the bottom line as this. If you want to go on a LDS trip then by all means do it. Many people prefer to do it this way and I did for the first several trips I took. I always enjoyed myself as they were well run trips. And I never complained about the price, and neither should anyone else, because you know right up front what the price is.

There will always be a place and a need for shop trips. But if you want the freedom of picking your own destination, your own resort, your own travel dates, and perhaps benefit from a lower price, then I would encourage people to try it on their own. And if you can get a group of friends together then the savings can really add up.