Line signals

[duckman]

Help...

I'm a PSD looking for a good fight! In one corner the Dive Rescue International Line signals, and in the other the Lifeguard Systems Line signals. Give me your impressions of one or the other or even better both (if you have experience in both). We are a team in transistion and we are evaluating our options...they seem so different. I look forward to your comments, and thank you for your time.

 

[bridgediver]

Well that should be a good one duckman...

I have used both and we are going through a transition process ourselves - just about done, finally! My impressions are

DRI
Simple, easy to remember

LGS
able to communicate a wider variety of the more common eventualities BUT as it is a more complex system it needs to be practiced regularly

The reasons you may want more complex communications may become more obvious if you read Hendrick's book "Public Safety Diving". What makes sense for one team may not make sense for another

 

[Rick Murchison]

What makes sense for one team may not make sense for another

And therin lies your answer. Whether you use an established system or a homegrown one doesn't really matter so long as your team knows what it's using and everyone can use it.
Rick

 

[duckman]

Thank you for your insights Bridgediver and Uncle Ricky (If I may). The main concern I have heard is the lenght of the signals LGS is using. If there is a catastrophic air failure, will you be able to send the 4+4+4 for help. There is no doubt that training must be regular to learn and adopt the LGS signals, but isn't that what we signed-up for?

 

[Gary D.]

Thank you for your insights Bridgediver and Uncle Ricky (If I may). The main concern I have heard is the lenght of the signals LGS is using. If there is a catastrophic air failure, will you be able to send the 4+4+4 for help. There is no doubt that training must be regular to learn and adopt the LGS signals, but isn't that what we signed-up for?

The Navy was 4+4+4 for a problem. Their idea was that when that signal started the tender better recognize it and the diver better be giving the 12th tug standing on the deck.

You need to use what works for your team. The main reason for standardization is so teams can come together and work together easier.

Gary D.

 

[duckman]

Interesting view Gary D, I appreciate the insite. Seeing that DRI teaches 4 tugs for help, isn't that a quicker way to get your point across? Were you suggesting that the back-up diver initiates his descent before the full set of tugs is complete? If anyone else is reading these conversations please give me some feedback, it would help our team tremendously...thanks.

Duckman

 

[Gary D.]

Interesting view Gary D, I appreciate the insite. Seeing that DRI teaches 4 tugs for help, isn't that a quicker way to get your point across? Were you suggesting that the back-up diver initiates his descent before the full set of tugs is complete? If anyone else is reading these conversations please give me some feedback, it would help our team tremendously...thanks.

Duckman

No I'm not. I said "was", I don't have a clue as to what they do now because it is a kinder gentler military. But NAVY training is a world away from any civilian diving. They used to think that if a diver got into trouble the tender better know it at the same time as the diver if not before. 4 tugs was the trouble signal just repeated three times. When things go to poop there is going to be a lot of pulling so counting isn't a real issue. Anything over 4 is get whatever into gear right now.

Weird things happened in training that would not be done in the real diving world. After all the object of the school was to make you quit which they did quite well.

Back then there were no BC's, no single hose regs, inner tubes for dry suits, no gauges, no back-up dives and much less than there is available today.

Different world just a few years ago.

Gary D.

 

[bridgediver]

Thank you for your insights Bridgediver and Uncle Ricky (If I may). The main concern I have heard is the lenght of the signals LGS is using. If there is a catastrophic air failure, will you be able to send the 4+4+4 for help. There is no doubt that training must be regular to learn and adopt the LGS signals, but isn't that what we signed-up for?

The 4+4+4 is actually continuous. I had thought it was a bit over the top too but if you actually think about the situation that the diver may be in it does make sense. The diver in this situation would be unable to ascend or free himself and needs immediate assistance; could be an air problem, could be panic but the diver feels he is in a life threatening situation that he cannot solve on his own. Continuous pulls of 4 will maintain constant and active communication to the tender and also give the diver something to focus on and may calm the situation.
The number of pulls is not as important as them being continuous. If the diver can't complete the 4+4+4 the tender will give a 1 (OK?) signal and if theres no response the backup will go anyway so no real time is lost - 1 set of 4 should be enough to get people scrambling anyway
Gary sort of alludes to this (I think)...

You're also right that training should obviously be regular but sometimes this isn't always the case, unfortunately

 

[bridgediver]

And therin lies your answer. Whether you use an established system or a homegrown one doesn't really matter so long as your team knows what it's using and everyone can use it.
Rick

Thats not really what I meant. I wouldn't suggest using a homemade system because there will come a time when you may have to work with another team - standardization is important. If a team is using DRI or LGS signals, I know what they are and we can make it work but if we need to spend time going over a whole new system we're just wasting time. The fire service has thousands of examples of these types of communication problems at major incidents - hence one the reasons why the ICS was developed.
I think what I should have said is that it may be difficult to understand WHY another team does something different - thats what I meant by "makes sense"

 

[Yotsie]

We use the DRI signals and have put them on a laminated business card sized card and have them zip tied to everything, throw bags, rope bags,PFDs. The diver and tender review the signals prior to starting the op.
Pick either one and stick to it. If your in a mutual aid situation, just make sure to brief prior to deploying.