OP
Moving on to Drysuit
- Thread starter hayleyfish
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If you end up with a pair of soft boots, such as DUI Turbosoles, Freedive Fin Keepers or similar worn over them(inside your fins) will help keep the air out and lesson the chance of them being pushed off your feet.
Last edited:
KevinNM
Contributor
That's how I do it. You can use the DS for buoyancy if you have a BC failure and can't easily swim up, or on the surface. But in general, use your BC for buoyancy.
Reku
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Drysuit is SO easy once you realize you only need to add tiny puffs of air at a time. 
SeaHorse81
Contributor
I'll add my vote to the school of putting air in the drysuit only to reduce squeeze and/or to increase warmth. My reason is that air hides in lots of little places in the dry suit, so you can't dump it as effectively on ascent as you can from a BC. I think it's also simpler to keep the functions separate, for the most part. If it's about buoyancy, adjust the air in the BC; if it's about anything else, adjust the air in the suit, except for those times when the air in the suit is contributing too much buoyancy.
Not that this is an option for many new drysuit divers, but one of the first things I did with mine after my drysuit class was to take it on a liveaboard trip. There's a lot to sort out when adopting this new way of diving, and you get through the learning curve a lot faster when you get to try things four times a day and apply each new experiential lesson an hour or two later, rather than days, weeks, or months later. My point would be to do whatever you can to pile on lots of dives early on, so that you don't have to keep relearning the same things a bunch of times because your dives are so far apart.
I was told to expect it to take about 50 dives to feel like I was really getting dialed in, and that was about right. A good class will go a long way toward giving you a good start. I'm grateful for the one I got from @Jim Lapenta. Everything about drysuit diving felt weird to me at first just because of the ways in which it was different. Totally doable, but you need to be willing to realize that diving dry is a different procedure than diving wet. Once you accept that, it goes a lot better. And being warm on a dive totally rocks.
Not that this is an option for many new drysuit divers, but one of the first things I did with mine after my drysuit class was to take it on a liveaboard trip. There's a lot to sort out when adopting this new way of diving, and you get through the learning curve a lot faster when you get to try things four times a day and apply each new experiential lesson an hour or two later, rather than days, weeks, or months later. My point would be to do whatever you can to pile on lots of dives early on, so that you don't have to keep relearning the same things a bunch of times because your dives are so far apart.
I was told to expect it to take about 50 dives to feel like I was really getting dialed in, and that was about right. A good class will go a long way toward giving you a good start. I'm grateful for the one I got from @Jim Lapenta. Everything about drysuit diving felt weird to me at first just because of the ways in which it was different. Totally doable, but you need to be willing to realize that diving dry is a different procedure than diving wet. Once you accept that, it goes a lot better. And being warm on a dive totally rocks.
Yes, this is how I was taught as well. Just easier to deal with as well.
As you have seen in the discussion there are two schools of thought.
I am leaning towards recommending that you follow the recommendations of you instructor, at least in the first instance.
Personally, I wonder if the comment about using the BC or wing for buoyancy and just take the squeeze of the suit isn't born from a large part of the sport diving industry attempting to adapt warm water diving technique to cold water diving. Rather than accepting that cold water diving in a drysuit is a different technique.
Perhaps the first thing I should say is drysuit diving is different to wetsuit diving. Its not difficult, its just different.
Rather like driving a car, an automatic is different to a manual. A different technique, a different focus.
RULE ONE. Be correctly weighted. (Its the same for wetsuit diving!)
If you are correctly weighted, the amount of air in the suit is quite small, and therefore manageable.
e.g. If you have 2 litres (1/2 gallon approx.) of air in the suit to make you neutrally buoyant at 10m (33ft). On ascent you will need to dump 2 litres of air by the time you reach the surface (to remain neutral - under control), because the volume of air will double as the ambient pressure drops.
If you are over weighted, and say need twice as much air to achieve neutral buoyancy, i.e 4 litres (1 gallon), then you will need to dump 4 litres (1 gallon) during the ascent.
Also, the more air sloshing around in the suit, the more it will interfere with your position in the water.
The biggest mistake is keep adding lead. Do a proper buoyancy check with an empty cylinder. If you can descend, (when you breath out and stop finning!) then you are heavy enough!
RULE TWO
Do things slowly. You feel bigger heavier and clumsier (rather like when you going sking compared to sun bathing).
You are wearing more kit, more thermal protection and more lead. Your fingers are thicker(gloves) and your face more heavily protected (hood).
Make small changes in depth, allowing you to make small adjustments to your buoyancy. Making small changes in depth gives you time!
Also remember there is a lag between an action and reaction.
In many ways both these rules are the same for wetsuit diving, but I think more noticeable in drysuit diving.
Approach it with an open mind, and don't expect to be an expert instantly - you may be one of the lucky ones that gets it instantly. But most divers take time to master buoyancy control, be that with a drysuit or without.
Gareth
PS
When I started with a drysuit many moons ago. Once I had correctly set the CVD (Constant Volume Dump) valve on the suit. I used to count the clicks, so that I could set it back to the same point before each dive. (Now I don't even think about it and adjust it on the fly if required.)
Adding a bit more.
There are three basic types of drysuit.
1. Neoprene
Normally the thickest materials.
Inherently buoyant, so more lead required.
Inherently warm - because of the thick neoprene
Neoprene often compresses with depth, meaning the buoyancy charactoristics change as you get deeper. Also the insulation reduces.
Can take bloody ages to dry.
2. Membrane.
Differing materials, but basically you are diving in a polythene bag.
Not inherently buoyant
Not warm - think of standing in the snow dressed only in a plastic bag!
Requires thermal layering to be warn under the suit.
Drys quickly
Light weight - good tor airlines
3. Crushed Neoprene
Normally the most expensive.
Has some buoyancy, which doesn't change with depth.
Has some thermal qualities, which doesn't change with depth.
SEAL'S
These are what are fitted to the neck and wrists to keep the water out.
There are three types,
Neoprene
Can't be fitted to all suit materials (normally limited to neoprene and crushed neoprene)
Generally hardwearing. Unlikely to tear. Can be patched up .
Not particularly stretchy, although super stretch neck seals are becoming more available.
Often difficult for women, because they have larger heads, smaller necks. More sinue wrists.
Have a tendancy to weep, especially at the wrist.
Neck seals are folded back on themselves, this is a bit of technique, and often needs a buddy to help.
Latex
Multiple sizes, Need trimming.
Deteriorate over time, figure two or three years before changing.
Will tear easily, don't wear jewellery, long nails are noted for puncturing them. If they have a nick in them they tear easily, normally during donning or doffing.
Tend to have an excellent seal, so don't weep.
If used a lot, eg a weeks diving, users often have a hung neck appearance - a rash mark around the neck.
Some people are allergic to latex.
Silicon
An alternate to latex. A lot of the same benefits and weaknesses as latex.
Have a habit of catastrophic failure with no warning. Latex at least starts to show signs of wear.
BOOTS
What you have on your feet.
Rubber Boots.
Like wellingtons, some are industrial - with steel toes, some are just rubber boots. Some now come with a thermal lining.
Turbo soles - or equivalent
Thin rubber sole on the bottom of the neoprene sock. Not very hard wearing. The soles are thin. so can be uncomfortable on rocky or uneven surfaces.
Rock boots or equivalent.
An over boot, like a baseball shoe. Warn over the neoprene sock.
EXCELLENT !!!!
But, don't walk around on the sock without the boots on. Most people with these get wet feet because they puncture the bottom of the sock by walking on them without the boot!!!!
ZIP
Normally along the shoulders. This requires a buddy to do it up.
Self donning versions are available. The question is, is the additional expense worth while.
Gareth
There are three basic types of drysuit.
1. Neoprene
Normally the thickest materials.
Inherently buoyant, so more lead required.
Inherently warm - because of the thick neoprene
Neoprene often compresses with depth, meaning the buoyancy charactoristics change as you get deeper. Also the insulation reduces.
Can take bloody ages to dry.
2. Membrane.
Differing materials, but basically you are diving in a polythene bag.
Not inherently buoyant
Not warm - think of standing in the snow dressed only in a plastic bag!
Requires thermal layering to be warn under the suit.
Drys quickly
Light weight - good tor airlines
3. Crushed Neoprene
Normally the most expensive.
Has some buoyancy, which doesn't change with depth.
Has some thermal qualities, which doesn't change with depth.
SEAL'S
These are what are fitted to the neck and wrists to keep the water out.
There are three types,
Neoprene
Can't be fitted to all suit materials (normally limited to neoprene and crushed neoprene)
Generally hardwearing. Unlikely to tear. Can be patched up .
Not particularly stretchy, although super stretch neck seals are becoming more available.
Often difficult for women, because they have larger heads, smaller necks. More sinue wrists.
Have a tendancy to weep, especially at the wrist.
Neck seals are folded back on themselves, this is a bit of technique, and often needs a buddy to help.
Latex
Multiple sizes, Need trimming.
Deteriorate over time, figure two or three years before changing.
Will tear easily, don't wear jewellery, long nails are noted for puncturing them. If they have a nick in them they tear easily, normally during donning or doffing.
Tend to have an excellent seal, so don't weep.
If used a lot, eg a weeks diving, users often have a hung neck appearance - a rash mark around the neck.
Some people are allergic to latex.
Silicon
An alternate to latex. A lot of the same benefits and weaknesses as latex.
Have a habit of catastrophic failure with no warning. Latex at least starts to show signs of wear.
BOOTS
What you have on your feet.
Rubber Boots.
Like wellingtons, some are industrial - with steel toes, some are just rubber boots. Some now come with a thermal lining.
Turbo soles - or equivalent
Thin rubber sole on the bottom of the neoprene sock. Not very hard wearing. The soles are thin. so can be uncomfortable on rocky or uneven surfaces.
Rock boots or equivalent.
An over boot, like a baseball shoe. Warn over the neoprene sock.
EXCELLENT !!!!
But, don't walk around on the sock without the boots on. Most people with these get wet feet because they puncture the bottom of the sock by walking on them without the boot!!!!
ZIP
Normally along the shoulders. This requires a buddy to do it up.
Self donning versions are available. The question is, is the additional expense worth while.
Gareth
Last edited:
OP
hayleyfish
Registered
Thank you Gareth and everyone for such excellent information. Really really helpful.
wAdditional Information 2
Gaiters, etc have been mentioned in posts. So a little extra information.
Those using drysuits for the first time are often concerned with inversion. Which is a situation where air migrates to the feet and you end up upside down, going towards the surface.
Firstly let me say this is a very very rare occurrence even with new drysuit diver.
For newer divers it is often a concern because part of the drysuit training involves learning how to roll out of an inversion. So a bit of time is spent on this exercise. In addition, instructors rather cruelly enjoy teaching this exercise. Which includes tipping you upside and adding air to the drysuit to force an inversion, letting you go, and letting you roll out.
It is also taught in shallow water, so there is little room (depth/time) to achieve a roll out.
Also, in a drysuit you can actually feel the air moving around, especially if it pools in one place, ankles/feet or arms.
When you are new to drysuit diving you are hypersensitive. Rather like you where breathing with a regulator when you first started.
Experienced drysuit divers actually often force air to there feet to get a horizontal position in the water, especially on decompression stops where they want to be horizontal. Bending at the knee with air in the feet/ankle helps keep you horizontal with no effort.
Because of the concern over air in the feet, there are a number of solutions.
1. Gaiter
2. Ankle weights
3. Fit
4. Boots.
In reverse order.
The newer suits with 'rock boots' (see previous email), and neoprene socks. The rock boots should fit snuggly (like a normal pair of shoes (allowing for all the thermal socks) . By there nature, they stop air entering the FEET, air can still pool around the ankle and lower leg.
This does mean that even if the suit is a bit long in the leg, or the foot (sock) of the suit a little large. The boot will keep your foot in the sock, the sock in the boot, and the fin on your foot.
Poor fit - suits that are too large are hardwork. Especially if the foot is too big, and the leg too long. There does need to be sufficient room to have a full range of movement, crouch down bend at the waist, reach back behind your head etc. This need to be possible with ALL your thermal layers on.
Suit legs that are too long, and boots that are too big increase the risk of the boot being forced off the foot during an inversion. Although amusing for spectators, inconvenient and an annoyance for the diver.
If the boot is a little big WEAR EXTRA SOCKS! 1. it stops cold feet. 2. It fills the empty air space in the boot/foot.
Gaiters. In the UK at least very seldom seen. They are strapped on to the lower leg, and compress the excess material, stopping air migrating into the lower leg and pooling here.
Ankle weights. Notably, a lot of women wear ankle weights. One of the female instructors who taught me many moons ago used to say women have floaty ankles, men don't. I do know that most men can remove ankle weights after a little time and experience with no adverse effect. It seems that for a lot of women this is far more of a problem. I leave that for the women to comment on.
THERMAL LAYERS
Dependent on the suit material, the water temperature, the wind chill, and the individual, the layering will differ.
There are many diving manufacturers making specific clothing to be worn under drysuits. Some people make do with a track suit!
The ideals are materials that wick sweat away from the body, that 'breath'. It is often advantageous to have layers. It is as dangerous to be too hot as too cold in a drysuit. With layering you can adjust what is worn to suit the time of year/environment.
Some materials are better at keeping you warm in the event of a suit flood. For many they would just get out of the water and get changed. For some, the option of leaving the water may not be viable (long decompression penalties, etc).
CVD
Constant Volume Dumps.
Most modern drysuits are fitted with CVD's. A sprung valve that is adjustable, and positioned on the left shoulder/arm.
The valve works by having a spring as you screw the valve down (closed) more pressure (force) is needed to open the valve. As air in the suit expands - on ascent - it forces open the valve and bleeds air out automatically.
Correctly adjusted, the diver never consciously vents air from the suit, the valve does this automatically as you ascend.
The position of the CVD should be high on the shoulder - air rises to the highest point, you want it to rise to the valve, not have a pocket of air in the top of your shoulder/arm and the valve below it!!!
A CVD can be over ridden. If you press on it, it will open, if you screw it down you force it closed - although by pressing on it you will still open it.
Tips and tricks.
Some materials may clog the valve, or at least restrict its effectiveness. Especially clothing that is not design for drysuits.
Fluffy bulky clothing as an example. Cut the foot off a sock, pull it up your arm so it sits below the valve. This keeps any padding or loose material out of the valve.
Roll right. On ascent, if you drop your right shoulder, and lift your left, you will force more air to the valve, and dump more air. This avoids having to manually push the valve and dump. Most drysuit divers do this subconsciously after a time. Especially if they are horizontal in the water.
Being cruel to your drysuit buddy. If you stay on high his/her left, and make him/her twist left to see you, they will go through gallons of air, keep crashing into the bottom and generally start swearing at you, if they figure out what is happening. If you look closely, every time they twist to look at you, you will see them venting air from their CVD.
ALWAYS - ALWAYS double check that the zip is fully closed, even if your nearest and dearest closed your zip. It will avoid a divorce or at worst a frosty drive home. A zip open half an inch lets a lot of water in!
Gareth
Gaiters, etc have been mentioned in posts. So a little extra information.
Those using drysuits for the first time are often concerned with inversion. Which is a situation where air migrates to the feet and you end up upside down, going towards the surface.
Firstly let me say this is a very very rare occurrence even with new drysuit diver.
For newer divers it is often a concern because part of the drysuit training involves learning how to roll out of an inversion. So a bit of time is spent on this exercise. In addition, instructors rather cruelly enjoy teaching this exercise. Which includes tipping you upside and adding air to the drysuit to force an inversion, letting you go, and letting you roll out.
It is also taught in shallow water, so there is little room (depth/time) to achieve a roll out.
Also, in a drysuit you can actually feel the air moving around, especially if it pools in one place, ankles/feet or arms.
When you are new to drysuit diving you are hypersensitive. Rather like you where breathing with a regulator when you first started.
Experienced drysuit divers actually often force air to there feet to get a horizontal position in the water, especially on decompression stops where they want to be horizontal. Bending at the knee with air in the feet/ankle helps keep you horizontal with no effort.
Because of the concern over air in the feet, there are a number of solutions.
1. Gaiter
2. Ankle weights
3. Fit
4. Boots.
In reverse order.
The newer suits with 'rock boots' (see previous email), and neoprene socks. The rock boots should fit snuggly (like a normal pair of shoes (allowing for all the thermal socks) . By there nature, they stop air entering the FEET, air can still pool around the ankle and lower leg.
This does mean that even if the suit is a bit long in the leg, or the foot (sock) of the suit a little large. The boot will keep your foot in the sock, the sock in the boot, and the fin on your foot.
Poor fit - suits that are too large are hardwork. Especially if the foot is too big, and the leg too long. There does need to be sufficient room to have a full range of movement, crouch down bend at the waist, reach back behind your head etc. This need to be possible with ALL your thermal layers on.
Suit legs that are too long, and boots that are too big increase the risk of the boot being forced off the foot during an inversion. Although amusing for spectators, inconvenient and an annoyance for the diver.
If the boot is a little big WEAR EXTRA SOCKS! 1. it stops cold feet
. 2. It fills the empty air space in the boot/foot.Gaiters. In the UK at least very seldom seen. They are strapped on to the lower leg, and compress the excess material, stopping air migrating into the lower leg and pooling here.
Ankle weights. Notably, a lot of women wear ankle weights. One of the female instructors who taught me many moons ago used to say women have floaty ankles, men don't. I do know that most men can remove ankle weights after a little time and experience with no adverse effect. It seems that for a lot of women this is far more of a problem. I leave that for the women to comment on.
THERMAL LAYERS
Dependent on the suit material, the water temperature, the wind chill, and the individual, the layering will differ.
There are many diving manufacturers making specific clothing to be worn under drysuits. Some people make do with a track suit!
The ideals are materials that wick sweat away from the body, that 'breath'. It is often advantageous to have layers. It is as dangerous to be too hot as too cold in a drysuit. With layering you can adjust what is worn to suit the time of year/environment.
Some materials are better at keeping you warm in the event of a suit flood. For many they would just get out of the water and get changed. For some, the option of leaving the water may not be viable (long decompression penalties, etc).
CVD
Constant Volume Dumps.
Most modern drysuits are fitted with CVD's. A sprung valve that is adjustable, and positioned on the left shoulder/arm.
The valve works by having a spring as you screw the valve down (closed) more pressure (force) is needed to open the valve. As air in the suit expands - on ascent - it forces open the valve and bleeds air out automatically.
Correctly adjusted, the diver never consciously vents air from the suit, the valve does this automatically as you ascend.
The position of the CVD should be high on the shoulder - air rises to the highest point, you want it to rise to the valve, not have a pocket of air in the top of your shoulder/arm and the valve below it!!!
A CVD can be over ridden. If you press on it, it will open, if you screw it down you force it closed - although by pressing on it you will still open it.
Tips and tricks.
Some materials may clog the valve, or at least restrict its effectiveness. Especially clothing that is not design for drysuits.
Fluffy bulky clothing as an example. Cut the foot off a sock, pull it up your arm so it sits below the valve. This keeps any padding or loose material out of the valve.
Roll right. On ascent, if you drop your right shoulder, and lift your left, you will force more air to the valve, and dump more air. This avoids having to manually push the valve and dump. Most drysuit divers do this subconsciously after a time. Especially if they are horizontal in the water.
Being cruel to your drysuit buddy. If you stay on high his/her left, and make him/her twist left to see you, they will go through gallons of air, keep crashing into the bottom and generally start swearing at you, if they figure out what is happening. If you look closely, every time they twist to look at you, you will see them venting air from their CVD.
ALWAYS - ALWAYS double check that the zip is fully closed, even if your nearest and dearest closed your zip. It will avoid a divorce or at worst a frosty drive home. A zip open half an inch lets a lot of water in!
Gareth
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