NorthWoodsDiver
Contributor
I have a wheel that I have never needed or used...
Multi-level diving
- Thread starter TMet
- Start date
Please register or login
Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.
Benefits of registering include
- Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
- A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
- You can make this box go away
There's also Charlie's Flat Wheel:
http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/1313824-post8.html
http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/1313824-post8.html
H2Andy
Contributor
holy cow
i had assumed you were using the Wheel (which, btw, i have never used). you had said you'd taken the multi-level specialty.
anyway, if you use the regular tables, it won't come out right at all; they're not meant for that
as suggested, V-planner is awesome for planning any sort of multi-level dive
ianr33
Contributor
In that case I would just use V-Planner and forget about wheels and the like. Plan a dive on V-Planner. Make sure it is NDL or minimal deco (say 5 minutes) then on the actual dive make sure your computer clears as well.
You have probably noticed that NDL dives on the edge of the tables are deco dives with V planner. e.g 20 minutes at 100 feet on air gives around 9 minutes deco with a middle of the road conservatism setting of +2. i.e its asking for a real deco stop,not an "obligatory safety stop"
The wheel costs here £39.95 the eRDP ML £14.95, I would not consider the wheel unless a friend gives it to you for free, the product is now obsolete and has been removed from all PADI training classes
If you "plan the dive and dive the plan", what happens when you violate the plan by a couple meters or a couple of minutes when you go and take a photo or video of that very rare fish you have ever seen before?
These days with dive computers you can plan your dive before hand, but the question is why would you need to?
The only thing that needs to be decided on is maximum depth of the dive and how much breathing gas you will have back at the surface. Dive time is regulated by these 2 things.
All you need to do is follow what your dive computer tells you and monitor your air, or buy an air-integrated computer and just wait for it to tell you what to do! This method is best and has worked well for me on hundreds of dives over the last 2 years.
These days with dive computers you can plan your dive before hand, but the question is why would you need to?
The only thing that needs to be decided on is maximum depth of the dive and how much breathing gas you will have back at the surface. Dive time is regulated by these 2 things.
All you need to do is follow what your dive computer tells you and monitor your air, or buy an air-integrated computer and just wait for it to tell you what to do! This method is best and has worked well for me on hundreds of dives over the last 2 years.
I know I don't need to go through all this. I've been doing it the way you described for well over 100 dives in the last year and a half. I just want to. I'm not going to stop using a computer either. I just want to further my skillsets with dive planning. Once I'm really comfortable diving I like to add another variable to keep it interesting and keep learning. My primary dive buddy has the same mindset with diving as I do, so it is fun for us too. We enjoy the dive until our turn point or surface time and then its "game on" for drills and practice. No mask ascents, air-sharing, practicing loss of BC or drysuit, etc., or a combination of "problems". It's good practice and a lot of fun too. Just looking to safely add something else to think about. The computer will remain in place to fall back on.
As I said before this is also in preparation for Adv. Nitrox/Deco. Again, I appreciate all the help so far. I'll check out the replacement for the wheel and I'll start playing with V-Planner more.
DaleC
Contributor
Tell me your just joshing...
1. You can't really be advocating not bothering to plan your dives because you might get distracted. What "happens" when all your technology fails and you have no dive plan to fall back on?
1a. What happens if your computer dies, malfunctions, locks up or falls off?
2. How does knowing how much gas you need back on the surface help you during the dive? Wouldn't it be more helpful to know what your turn pressure/rock bottom was for the depth you plan to dive at and for each depth you may ascend to after that?
3. Forfeit real dive planning skills for blind reliance on technology??? Isn't that how Skynet took over in the first place.
Smeigel thinks you're just being tricksey
This is a question that has been bothering me for a long time; but never enough to check it out. So armed with my table and wheel, I have come up with the following response.
First of all, the NDL's for all depths on the when correspond to the NDL's on the RDP. So theoretically this far, you could use the RDP to plan a multi-level dive. When you get to the second level depths, the multi-level times correspond to the time three pressure groups away from your maximum pressure groups for each depth above 80 feet. The NDL's are the same as the RDP on all of these depths.
So, theoretically, up until this point, you could use the RDP to plan multi-level dives. However, there is one thing the wheel has that the RDP doesn't; the subsequent depth table. This is the little table that wraps around the pivot point that the depth curves radiate from. Without this important portion of the table, how would you know what your next depth would be? So to answer your question, buy a wheel.
Taking a table with you on a dive isn't always necessary. A slate with a planned depth, contingency depth, and max bottom times for both are enough. If you don't have a slate, put duct tape on your fins and write it in permanent marker on the tape. After the dive, peel off the tape and put it in the recycle bin.
The old saying "plan your dive and dive your plan" is the best advice I can give anyone. I always teach my students to plan their dives with a table and back the plan up with a computer if they want to use one. I don't use a computer. I have an OMS bottom timer that shows depth, a watch to back it up with, and an SPG. My reason for not using a computer is simple. A computer will let you do things that a table won't. For example, if you come within three pressure groups of your ending pressure group, according to the note on the back of the RDP, the minimum surface interval is 1 hour. A computer will let you dive long before one hour has elapsed.
I's true you can get more bottom time out of a computer. But can you get more air out of a cylinder? There are some divers who can't get the full 10 minutes of bottom time out of an aluminum 80 at 130 feet. Dive planning isn't just knowing what you can do according to the table, but also knowing what you can do with the air you have. Knowing your SAC and RMV are good skills to have. The rule of thirds is (in my opinion) critical when depths are below 100 feet.
Also, have you ever made a repetitive dive and your computer said it was ok only to find that when you went to log it, you violated the bottom time for the depth you went to? I have. Tables are conservative. They don't know your whole dive profile. But why take the chance on a computer?
I'm not against computers. I think they are a valuable tool when used in conjunction with a dive table. But they should not be relied upon solely. I know many divers who have forgotten how to use a table because they rely too much on a computer. The best computer you have as a diver is the one between your ears.
First of all, the NDL's for all depths on the when correspond to the NDL's on the RDP. So theoretically this far, you could use the RDP to plan a multi-level dive. When you get to the second level depths, the multi-level times correspond to the time three pressure groups away from your maximum pressure groups for each depth above 80 feet. The NDL's are the same as the RDP on all of these depths.
So, theoretically, up until this point, you could use the RDP to plan multi-level dives. However, there is one thing the wheel has that the RDP doesn't; the subsequent depth table. This is the little table that wraps around the pivot point that the depth curves radiate from. Without this important portion of the table, how would you know what your next depth would be? So to answer your question, buy a wheel.
Taking a table with you on a dive isn't always necessary. A slate with a planned depth, contingency depth, and max bottom times for both are enough. If you don't have a slate, put duct tape on your fins and write it in permanent marker on the tape. After the dive, peel off the tape and put it in the recycle bin.
The old saying "plan your dive and dive your plan" is the best advice I can give anyone. I always teach my students to plan their dives with a table and back the plan up with a computer if they want to use one. I don't use a computer. I have an OMS bottom timer that shows depth, a watch to back it up with, and an SPG. My reason for not using a computer is simple. A computer will let you do things that a table won't. For example, if you come within three pressure groups of your ending pressure group, according to the note on the back of the RDP, the minimum surface interval is 1 hour. A computer will let you dive long before one hour has elapsed.
I's true you can get more bottom time out of a computer. But can you get more air out of a cylinder? There are some divers who can't get the full 10 minutes of bottom time out of an aluminum 80 at 130 feet. Dive planning isn't just knowing what you can do according to the table, but also knowing what you can do with the air you have. Knowing your SAC and RMV are good skills to have. The rule of thirds is (in my opinion) critical when depths are below 100 feet.
Also, have you ever made a repetitive dive and your computer said it was ok only to find that when you went to log it, you violated the bottom time for the depth you went to? I have. Tables are conservative. They don't know your whole dive profile. But why take the chance on a computer?
I'm not against computers. I think they are a valuable tool when used in conjunction with a dive table. But they should not be relied upon solely. I know many divers who have forgotten how to use a table because they rely too much on a computer. The best computer you have as a diver is the one between your ears.
Similar threads
