NAUI Openwater, experienced. Now I need advanced?

[spectrum]

All of a sudden I made it to 51 dives without taking AOW and I've done most of what's usually covered. I do want to get the AOW certification mainly to avoid the mentioned snags when diving from a boat that requires it. I plan to do my AOW with a shop that does it 1:1 and I'm going ask them to emphasise gap coverage, cut me no slack and make sure I learn something, even it's just an alternate way of doing something I have a good method for. Look for a customizable program, we all have gaps we can close even if we have learned the skills to dive in our comfort zone.

Pete

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

All of a sudden I made it to 51 dives without taking AOW and I've done most of what's usually covered. I do want to get the AOW certification mainly to avoid the mentioned snags when diving from a boat that requires it. I plan to do my AOW with a shop that does it 1:1 and I'm going ask them to emphasise gap coverage, cut me no slack and make sure I learn something, even it's just an alternate way of doing something I have a good method for. Look for a customizable program, we all have gaps we can close even if we have learned the skills to dive in our comfort zone.

Good plan. Some instructors can make an AOW class a learning experience, even for the very experienced OW diver. I've had AOW students with as many as 500 dives, and I've found ways to challenge them. This past week-end I had a student who has been a dive buddy of mine since we did DIR-F together last year ... and he has also taken my Rescue class almost a year ago. But I still managed to challenge him (it wasn't easy) during the AOW class sessions and open water skills dives.

It can be done ... and any class you take should use your present skill set as a starting point and build on what you already know ... otherwise, you aren't getting your money's worth.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[tedtim]

Well, I went to 60 fsw, but it's only 10 feet deeper to 70...Well, I've gone to 70, might as well make it 80...90 seems safe, and I'm sure I can do well at 100, 110, 120, 130...

Overconfidence is NOT a substitute for training!!!

Hey, I guess that means I can't dive at night unless I take a night certification. Wait, I can't dive off of a boat because I don't have a boat certification. I can't take pictures because I have not taken the photo course. I can't do a drift dive unless an instructor runs me through that certification too. I had better close my eyes when I get near a wreck because I am not trained to know that it is a wreck. Gee, I did use my compass once on the OW course, so now I guess I can try navigation.

I am all for training. I used to make my living teaching people to fly. There is a big difference among training, certification, and capability. IMO some of the certification courses are not worth the trouble of carrying the C card with you (come on now, how many of you have not taken the boat diving course, but still dive from a boat?).

The focus of these "Advanced" OW discussions always seems to go toward deep diving. I pulled out my OW manual and could not find any reference to "you can't go below sixty feet." The reference is to limit depth to sixty feet or less as a new diver. What is a new diver? You can hardly call many of the folks who made posts to this site "new divers."

Nothing stops people from being stupid. This is all about risk management. Training is one way to mitigate a risk, but experience combined with training is better. Even if I were to take a cave course I sure would not venture into many of the places I have read about without some experience beyond taking the course.

Certification is NOT a substitue for experience!!!

 

[joe rock]

I took the AOW a very short time after my OW cert. Obviously, I am a very new diver and don't consider myself "advanced" by any stretch of the imagination. What taking the AOW did for me was to give me an opportunity to continue developing my skills in a somewhat controlled envirorment (if any dive can be called that) with an instructor I trusted and respected.

As a newbie, going beyond the OW navigation was a tremendous benefit for me. One of our "non-madatory" dives was a search and recovery dive. I had to continue to develop and use navigation skills, bouyancy skills etc. Maybe I would have developed this stuff on my own, but I feel my development was greatly accelerated.

Even with an AOW certification I KNOW I'm a novice and won't exceed my capablities nor skill, but I am a much more confident novice than I was before the AOW.

 

[DesertEagle]

Hey, I guess that means I can't dive at night unless I take a night certification. Wait, I can't dive off of a boat because I don't have a boat certification. I can't take pictures because I have not taken the photo course. I can't do a drift dive unless an instructor runs me through that certification too. I had better close my eyes when I get near a wreck because I am not trained to know that it is a wreck. Gee, I did use my compass once on the OW course, so now I guess I can try navigation.

I am all for training. I used to make my living teaching people to fly. There is a big difference among training, certification, and capability. IMO some of the certification courses are not worth the trouble of carrying the C card with you (come on now, how many of you have not taken the boat diving course, but still dive from a boat?).

The focus of these "Advanced" OW discussions always seems to go toward deep diving. I pulled out my OW manual and could not find any reference to "you can't go below sixty feet." The reference is to limit depth to sixty feet or less as a new diver. What is a new diver? You can hardly call many of the folks who made posts to this site "new divers."

Nothing stops people from being stupid. This is all about risk management. Training is one way to mitigate a risk, but experience combined with training is better. Even if I were to take a cave course I sure would not venture into many of the places I have read about without some experience beyond taking the course.

Certification is NOT a substitue for experience!!!

Ted, that's one of the best posts I've seen. The funny thing is that Naui's "deep" dives in the advanced course don't have to be very deep.

 

[matts1w]

In a world where every dive instructor, dive shop, boat operator, etc... is continually worried about having his or her a-- sued off, I am surprised people find AOW an issue. I know one can become a very confident diver with OW cwertification. However, if something were to happen and that dive operator were brought into court, the first thing a lawyer would ask is "Why did you let a diver with only basic certification dive below 60 feet when PADI/NAUI/whoever says they should stay above 60?"

Do not take it personally that a dive company is limiting your depth. It has NOTHING to do with you and EVERYTHING to with a world that rewards silly litigation. Persoanlly,I would rather dive with a company that errs on the side of conservatism than a boat that barely even checks your C-Card. At the very least when you take AOW you get to do five fun dives.

 

[tedtim]

I am surprised people find AOW an issue. I know one can become a very confident diver with OW cwertification. However, if something were to happen and that dive operator were brought into court, the first thing a lawyer would ask is "Why did you let a diver with only basic certification dive below 60 feet when PADI/NAUI/whoever says they should stay above 60?"

I refer to my previous post. The whole issue here seems to be based on deep dives. You can't take the PADI deep course without having taken the AOW. The AOW only takes you to 100 feet, the deep course takes you to 130 feet. So, if a dive operator accepts your PADI AOW certification and allows you to dive below 100 feet they are facing the same situation as you have stated above. Nobody has ever asked for my Deep C card. Funny thing is that when you show them either a Rescue or DM card they assume that you are qualified to do anything. (a separate thread could or probably has been started on this one)

Heck, if it were really that much of a problem in places like Mexico, they would demand that all of the instructors and DMs have insurance. Do all instructors and DMs need to have insurance in Mexico or other places?

 

[in_cavediver]

You're right, they are NOT an accurate indicator of EXPERIENCE, but they do indicate you have had TRAINING. There's a big difference!

You can argue the relevent merits of each but considering I started the AOW right after OW, finishing at dive 12 or so, I hardly see where the AOW card can be seen to give a reliable indication of diver skill.

Given that, if you make AOW into a real class, with real requirements and with real evaluations, then you might have some room to say it has meaning. In my case, when I did the PADI class, I answered a few questions and did 5 dives. The best part is that on dive number 12, (last dive of the AOW class), I was magically transformed from a newbie to an expierenced diver. I had the card to prove it!

 

[DiverDunk]

Interesting they let you go on the dive but limited your depth.

Down the coast in Sharm I have experienced dive operators that will not let you on certain dives until they have checked you out (or you've been diving with them before). Cert level and number of dives don't seem to matter - they see you dive or you don't go.

Cheers!

Dunk

 

[Blackwood]

Back when I started diving, a C card was the universal ticket to dive. I took a NAUI course in college and did my requisite open water dives. Since then I've had a lot of dives all over world. Boat dives, low visibility, deep dives, stong currents, cold water... My NAUI Openwater I card was just fine.

This past March I was in Eilat, Israel. I've been to Eilat before but all of those dives had been fairly shalow. This time I signed up for the Japanese Gardens, a site that probably goes to about 30 meters. The dive center was happy to have me on the boat but advised that I needed to stay above 18 meters.

Frankly, I don't feel like taking another course. I'm an experienced and careful diver. However, is this going to be a more common requirement in the future? Looking at NAUI's website, it does state that ScubaDiver has a 18M maximum depth (during training dives). Advanced ScubaDiver only says that two dives must be made past 6M (20ft). This seems like a gray area. Any comments?

What... you didn't know that someone who's been diving for years is less fit to go beyond 18m than someone who recently paid for an AOW card?

I thought that was self evident!