No LDS, Where to Get Tank Refilled?

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Let us assume that in fact, the LDS closed and now there is a non-diving facility providing its equipment for local divers. They are the ones who need the fills after all. If we are talking about a few divers, and those divers dive only on the weekends, I cannot see a tremendous amount of extra wear and tear that could not be easily covered by the fill fees. The facility acquired the equipment for its own private use as it is needed for its operations. They did not go out and purchased a unit out of the goodness of their hearts to help divers. For what is worth, they may be even making a small profit by selling fills to the small number of divers.

If we are talking about a significant number of local divers who need to get their fills at the non-diving facility because the LDS flopped, then that is an entirely different subject. Why is it that with the presence of a significant number of local divers a dive shop did not find enough profits to stay in business?

Whatever legit reason may be obscured by an excuse (blame the Online Shops, Blame E-bay, Blame the new dive shop, etc) bottom line is that vast majority of the local divers did not see the value or trusted the LDS enough to keep it running.

Frankly, when it comes to prices, I do not really see a problem between LDS prices and Online prices. The real problem here, is the PERCEIVED value. People DO NOT necessarily purchase something based on prices but rather based on value.

In the many threads similar to this one, one can find several posters who happily support their LDS. These are not money-loaded spend rifts. These are regular folks who found a lot more than just gear. The most common phrase I see is "I do not mind paying a few extra bucks in return for the support and guidance I get". Kudos to the owners of those shops! They have earned the trust and appreciation of their customers. These are the owners who take the time to answer every question, who take the time to make people feel welcome, who take the time to build rapport and who make the customer feel like a friend. When it is time to ring the register, the last thing that will be on the customer's mind will be "I could've paid less online". Instead, the customer will be thinking how great and helpful the person was, and how the advice and recommendations were PRICELESS. Trust and rapport can overcome any price markup. Word of mouth will spread, and a repeat business is virtually assured.

HOWEVER, if the customer's experience is the opposite, you can be sure the reviews will be anything but positive. Again, let's refer to threads similar to this one. The most common grievances refer to LDS owners who think they are doing the customer a favor, or are too pushy, or make promises they do not keep, or preach the virtues of the gear they sell and put down the brands they do not stock. Trashing a brand not carried may have worked in the 80s where instant information was not available. In this era of fast information, LDS owners who vilify rival brands are setting themselves up for failure. You can be sure that the customer will be using resources like scubaboard to research the "evil" gear only to find many satisfied users. Who ends up looking like a loud-mouthed fool full of hot air? It's not the "evil" gear manufactures for sure.

This is the kind of scenario that erases every trace of value from a shop, and makes the customer focus on the more obvious bottom line, PRICE.

A customer happy with his LDS will disregard the markup because they know they are getting a lot more for their money than tangible goods. A mistreated LDS customer will feel ripped-off and disrespected in every instance, and should they ever get a break, they will not be grateful, rather they will say something along the lines of "It's about time, I deserve it for putting up with that A..H..."

It is very easy to get caught in the trap of competing for prices. Not too easy to stand out by providing superb value.

The advantage of the LDS owners is that they have the upper hand when it comes to building rapport and trust, and yet somehow, a significant number are failing to do so. The successful online retailers are aware of how important trust from their clients is to stay in business. They are doing a great job of earning the customer's support and trust despite the lack of direct one-on-one interaction. Heck, I have never met Joe or Larry at Scuba Toys, or Phil Ellis, but I would not hesitate to do business with them when needed. I do this based on my previous experiences and the efforts they make to communicate. And yes, I also support my LDS, and as long as they remain professional, helpful, and not preachy, I will continue to do so.

Based on my opening paragraph, and based on the scenario given, if the number of divers is so high that it warrants a significant amount of extra wear and tear on the equipment of the non-diving facility, that simply tells me the divers did not see the value on the defunct LDS and did not trust it enough to support it. It was simply a matter of time before the inevitable happened.

My 2 PSI (well, more like a full HP Steel 3442 120 Cu. cylinder)

This Pedantic Pontification misses the important point that living in an area doesn't make a diver a Local Diver. Most of the divers I know who live away from the ocean go to the big water to dive. Demonstrated very well by a conversation I had with a LDS owner in Lakewood, CO. I asked where the divers he supported dove. His answer was: "DEN". DEN I asked. He said: Yes, we can be almost anywhere in the Carribbean in just a few hours

Businesses come and go. Their fate has more to do with management quality than anything else; regardless of industry.

As for the OP original post: form a dive club. That will give you an idea of the economics. Then buy a club compressor and press forward; assuming there is a real demand.
 
I think I saw a USB HP Airfill cable online someplace . . .



:popcorn:

what if the PC crashes in the middle of the fill?
will that corrupt the tank?
I don't know if I could trust the purity of the fill what with viruses and all
Does Semantec have a filter?
If I use a UPS can I get a clean fill?
:confused:
 
what if the PC crashes in the middle of the fill?
will that corrupt the tank?
I don't know if I could trust the purity of the fill what with viruses and all
Does Semantec have a filter?
If I use a UPS can I get a clean fill?
:confused:


1.) if your PC crashes during the middle of the fill, you have to reboot you compressor. Best hope your 'compressor' doesn't display the Microsoft "Blue Screen of Death". Recomended solutions to this are the "Linux Fill System".

2.) you should always check 'downloaded air/gases' for possible viruses that it could obtained. You never know when you're going to get a 'dirty fill'. This is especially true with 'mixed gas fills' such as Nitrox or Tri-mix. You never know who was on the other end mixing those gases or if a hacker broke into their online compressor system.

3.) Symantic and McAfee both can filter these fills. Make sure your filter-stack is up to date.

4.) Having a UPS (battery backup) will help ensure that your fill completes in the event of a power outage. but make sure your router and modem are on battery backup also, as a network outage can have an outcome of the same undesired results.


Note:. If your "Online Fill System" is running Microsoft Vista, you're screwed.... the damn thing just isn't going to work. Period.

:rofl3:
 
Oh CRAP! I sold my Linux compressor and my gf's new laptop has Vistaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaoh my god
 
On a serious note what with me not even certified yet and feeling the LDS closure pains I have to say pffft with the whales, save the LDS's. In a few years we will be inundated with virtual divers. Already available online is the dry part of PADI courses. ACK THIP DUH, I need to get certified before all I have is a program for an instructor nic, nic, nic. Changes aren't affecting me, me me, me.
My condolences to the OP for the loss.
 
Oh CRAP! I sold my Linux compressor and my gf's new laptop has Vistaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaoh my god

You've got bigger problems.... wait till your wife finds out!

When your wife finds out that your girlfriends computer is running Vista, she'll Freak! :rofl3:
 
DOOMED! WE'RE ALL DOOMED!!!

NO ONE WILL EVER TO BE ABLE TO DIVE AGAIN!!!

OUR ONLY HOPE IS IF ALL US DIVERS GO BUY A $75 SLAP STRAP FROM OUR LOCAL DIVE SHOP!!!

But wait, if I don't support my online dive shop, won't it also go out of business?

Ever had high school friend or distant relative who now sells life insurance? Now, whenever you see them they try to trade in on your relationship to sell you something you don't really want; and you walk away from the encounter not only wanting to avoid them in the future, but also feeling a little sad that they've reduced themselves to that? You know that feeling?

That's what these "please be loyal to your local dive shop" conversations are beginning to feel like...

(No offense to either LDS owners or life insurance salesmen.)
 
This Pedantic Pontification misses the important point that living in an area doesn't make a diver a Local Diver. Most of the divers I know who live away from the ocean go to the big water to dive. Demonstrated very well by a conversation I had with a LDS owner in Lakewood, CO. I asked where the divers he supported dove. His answer was: "DEN". DEN I asked. He said: Yes, we can be almost anywhere in the Carribbean in just a few hours

Businesses come and go. Their fate has more to do with management quality than anything else; regardless of industry.

As for the OP original post: form a dive club. That will give you an idea of the economics. Then buy a club compressor and press forward; assuming there is a real demand.

Why you chose to open your statement with invective rather than facts is beyond me, but I do not intend to return the favor. It destroys the productivity of a conversation. What I want to point out though, is that your retort has absolutely NOTHING to do with the content of my post.

It seems that you did not read the entire message. My reply was in response to THIS statement.

Once there's no LDS in an area how long do you think a non-diving facility will be prepared to use (and wear out) its equipment for divers? Not too long.
That is why I made sure to quote it on top of my post. Why else would divers NEED air fills? To travel with full tanks??? What is the one piece of equipment that a non-diving facility has that a diver needs and undergoes wear and tear from usage? A COMPRESSOR!

And who will need air fills from the non-diving facility when the LDS closes? NOT the traveling diver. It'll be the local diver.

The traveling diver has different needs and is one who could not care less where tanks in the area are filled. There was no point missed. It was not part of the argument.

What you bring in your post though, is still a valid point and holds a lot of weight based on demographics... BUT IT'S STILL COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT TO MY ARGUMENT.

I have no problem with counterpoints and I welcome them as they always conduce to more learning. Heck, everyday I learn something new, and I have no problem with other points of view as long as they have substance. Nevertheless, when you have to resort to vituperation to show your disagreement, the essence of a good conversation is destroyed, and next thing we know, we are getting warnings from the MODs :wink: Been there before (part of an immature past) Not intending to get in that list again.

I have never referred to your posting in derogatory terms, so in that aspect, I think I deserve a little of the same in return. Don't you agree?

Cheers! :14:
 
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Don't own a shop mr dork. I just see the value in one.

There's no value in a shop that treats its customers poorly. A good LDS recognizes that, during tough economic times, those who are buying air from them are really their bread and butter.

Truthfully, the rest is just frosting. If a shop has treated a customer fairly, then buyer's remorse, although you may have spent more has less of an impact.

Unforturnately, most of the whining LDS' that exist today, don't realize that every sale, no matter how small, adds up! Seriously! If a shop treats a customer unappreciatively when making a small sale, why in God's name, do they think that they will come back when they need to make a big purchase?:confused: Hellooooo!!!! It's a no brainer!

Yes, an LDS needs a good bit of that frosting to survive in the long run, but if you can't make the bread and butter in the first place, there's no way you're going to make a thick enough frosting to survive in the long run! And so be it! Personally, I'd rather own my own garage compressor than pay out to a shop that doesn't appreciate my business, no matter how much!

Furthermore, when a bad LDS closes, it is possibly a window opening for another who realizes what kind of business model that they need to operate with to succeed! So the sooner a bad LDS closes, the better
 
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DOOMED! WE'RE ALL DOOMED!!!

NO ONE WILL EVER TO BE ABLE TO DIVE AGAIN!!!

OUR ONLY HOPE IS IF ALL US DIVERS GO BUY A $75 SLAP STRAP FROM OUR LOCAL DIVE SHOP!!!

But wait, if I don't support my online dive shop, won't it also go out of business?

Ever had high school friend or distant relative who now sells life insurance? Now, whenever you see them they try to trade in on your relationship to sell you something you don't really want; and you walk away from the encounter not only wanting to avoid them in the future, but also feeling a little sad that they've reduced themselves to that? You know that feeling?

That's what these "please be loyal to your local dive shop" conversations are beginning to feel like...

(No offense to either LDS owners or life insurance salesmen.)

I guess what you are saying is that all this talk is OVERKILL (pun intended)
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/perdix-ai/

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