No Limit verses Remaining Bottom Time (RBT)

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wreckdiversam

Registered
Messages
25
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Location
South Carolina
# of dives
200 - 499
I had a confusing experience happen last week while diving the Gulf. I'm using my new ScubaPro Luna computer and I was diving Nitrox with a 32% blend. This gave me a MOD of 111'. I have diving well short of this at around the 70-85' range. I have my computer set to 1.4 bar. On the wreck I have plenty of no decompression time but my RBT was frustratingly low. At 85' my computer gave me about 10 min of RBT. It actually went down to 0 and the alarm went off. I still have upward to 20 min of no decompression time and was still at well over half a tank. I did ascend very slowly (to maximize my underwater time more that anything). On the surface I talked to the Divemaster about this and he told me he could make some adjustments on my computer. He put my computer at 1.6bar which now gave me a MOD of 130 still with 32%. On the second dive I had more RBT but still ran out of bottom time well before my no decompression time was up. The alarm didn't go off but I hovered at around the 1-2 min of remaining bottom time. I just kept going higher.

Can some explain how this works? I'm not a complete newbie. I've got 50 or so dives between the N.C. coast and the Gulf. I have never had an issue with my RBT on any other computer. It's just this new Luna that is confusing me. Am I missing a setting?
 
PPO2 not bar. The unit is in bar, but what you're setting is PPO2. Either way it's the wrong setting to be playing with.

So thinking about it, your computer is warning you that you have remaining bottom time based on tank pressure. You must have your reserve pressure set too high. Quick glance at the manual confirms this, so go and check the reserve. Remember that this setting is what the computer predicts you will surface with, set it appropriately.
 
I think Tbone might have given you a good short answer, but, since this basic scuba, and your post shows some fundamental misunderstanding of basic principles (and of your computer) I would like to explain what was happening so you or others can learn from it.

I dive a Galileo Sol, which operates the same as your Luna. I must say strongly that the DM did not understand how your computer works, and did you a huge disservice by adjusting your PO2 max to dangerously high levels, when PO2 has nothing to do with what the computer was telling you. I am shocked that a trained DM would do what you described. However, I must also say, you put yourself at unnecessary risk by not understanding how your computer works, and what it was showing you. Please, RTFM!!! Your very life depends on understanding your computer--for which you, and not a DM, are solely responsible.

“RBT” is an acronym for “remaining bottom time.” It is exclusively and only a GAS CONSUMPTION calculation that is part of the computer’s air integration feature. It has nothing to do with NDL, and it has nothing to do with the PO2 of your mix.

The computer shows you your tank pressure, and also “RBT.” The RBT is a calculation of the amount of time you can stay at depth before your tank pressure reaches the level that, if you immediately ascend properly and do all stops, you will still reach the surface with a reserve tank pressure that you set before the dive. To give a practical example, if you set 500psi as your “reserve pressure on the surface”,the RBT will show “zero” when you must begin your direct ascent, including all stops, to reach the surface with 500 psi still in the tank. So, zero RBT does not mean “out of gas” and should not trigger an urgent response, but it does mean “begin your ascent” and you should do so in a calm orderly way.

As you can see, RBT has no relation to NDL.
NDL is related to decompression only, and is not a guarantee of adequate gas to do the dive. So, even if you have a lot of NDL, if you are breathing through your gas quickly, you will have to surface before your NDL is reached, because you used up your gas. The computer lets you know when your gas is so low that it is time to head for the boat with your pre-set safety margin. In fact, since going OOG is far worse than exceeding your NDL, be happy you have a computer that gives you not one but two notifications related to your gas supply (actual pressure in tank, and RBT).


As you can also see, RBT also has nothing to do with the MOD of the mix, which relates solely to oxygen toxicity and not gas consumption.
This is where your DM made a dangerous mistake and you did not catch it because you were not familiar with the computer . By trying to artificially get more time, you put your max Po2 into a dangerously high setting of 1.6 for the mix.S ince you set it, the computer will use this as “acceptable” to you and not warn you until you actually exceed 1.6. This is risky given the consequences of an ox tox seizure. If, for some reason, you had better gas consumption or a bigger tank on the next dive and so stayed down longer or deeper, you could have been exposed to high PO2. Please, set your computer back to 1.4. However, you absolutely did the right thing by following the computer’s information and not second-guessing the gas RBT on the second dive, even if you thought something was off and your first solution did not work.


Now, perhaps what happened will be clearer.
You are diving approx. 80-90 feet.Don’t know what cylinder you had but maybe the ubiquitious AL 80? Also don’t know your starting pressure. Those two factors determined your available gas.It does seem pretty fast to go through half an AL 80 in 10 minutes at 90 feet, but the computer adjusted to show more RBT as you went shallower, which is entirely as expected and indicates the algorithm was functioning. Maybe, you were just using more gas than usual on these dives.

However, Tbone suggested that you have your reserve pressure set too high. If so, the RBT algorithm will send you up early maybe even at 1200 or 1300 psi. You need to check your reserve setting. If, after setting the appropriate reserve, the RBT still seems off, have the computer checked.

Finally, your post shows confusion and misunderstanding of the significance of, and differences between, NDL, MOD and gas consumption. I would suggest that you review your OW and nitrox materials in addition to thoroughly reading your manual.

Don't take this wrong. I am a highly advanced rec diver, diving the limits of rec depths, with nitrox mixes, in currents, drifting, doing safety stops in the open ocean while drifting, all of the above at night, etc. When I got my Galileo, I spent three hours with the manual, and went into each and every menu setting to understand how it worked, what it showed, what I needed to set, etc. I did this more than once until the computer was second nature. Once you have it set up, the Galileos are incredibly easy and intuitive during the dive. But, you need to know the basics, and have the computer set to show you what you need to see.
 
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OP need to read your computer manual and know exactly what it is telling you, and also determine if it make sense. Blindly follow computer isn't that great of idea.
 
Can some explain how this works? Am I missing a setting?

It's obvious that you're diving with a computer that you DO NOT UNDERSTAND. This can very easily result in your death. There is only one acceptable action for you to take: Stop asking/reading info on an internet forum and...

rtfm-pope.jpg


Seriously.

NOTE: I realize that this is in the "Basic Scuba Discussion" forum and we are supposed to be friendly and cuddly and such... so please note that the "F" in the image above stands for "Friendly."

:cool2:
 
The possible penalty for making a mistake with your O2 setting is that you have a CNS oxygen toxicity convulsion and drown. Be extremely conservative here. 1.6 is considered reasonable when you are hanging motionless on a deco stop. 1.4 is considered reasonable when you are doing a typical low effort recreational profile. CO2, produced by high exertion, is known to make it more likely you will suffer CNS oxygen toxicity, so if you are working hard against a current or something the suggested limit is 1.2.
 
fantastic, funny, etc (though flippin' comes to mind too)....


OP - you need to understand what this thing is doing and how it relates to your diving. What if the ending pressure was set to zero (not sure it can be, as i don't own that model)?

The 1.4 PO2 also means something in regard to safety..... changing that was not a really good thing to do without specific knowledge of its implications. What did your Nitrox class tell you of this setting?

Reading up (again) is a prudent step, and/or seek some qualified direction...
 
If you use RBT (it is optional) the minimum end pressure will be enough to surface with 300 psi. It can never be actually out of gas when it shows zero RBT. Of course, you are also seeing the actual cylinder pressure as well, as RBT is in addition to, not a substitute for, that.
 
the rbt is apparently able to be programmed according to the manual and accounts for all safety stops, so it's possible you had a long safety stop programmed, or a high surface pressure. Either way changing the PPO2 limits wouldn't do anything for this so the dive master is a moron, and RTFM
 
guyharrisonphoto gave you a very good explanation of what is happening and where you need to improve your understanding. Except for the part about a pO2 setting of 1.6 being dangerously high. Tech divers routinely use pure O2 at 20 feet for extended periods with a pO2 of 1.6. Yes, this is while motionless on resting deco, but everyone needs to understand that OxTox is dosage related. That means both amount and time. You breathe a much higher pO2 level than that during a chamber ride. And divers have been known to go to 2.0 or higher for short periods in a pinch. What we are talking about here is a setting where the computer will warn you that your pO2 is high. For a recreational diver that is not in an overhead environment, you can drop your pO2 by merely rising up a few feet. So I would not hesitate to use the 1.6 setting as long as I'm aware of it. I wouldn't do my entire bottom time on a square profile dive at 1.6, but a few moments here or there are not going to cause instant convulsions.

With all that being said, I don't see any reason that changing it to 1.6 should make a difference in the calculation of remaining gas time. That's based on the computer monitoring tank pressure, ambient pressure, and your rate of consumption.
 

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