Octo vs AirII

[Papa_Bear]

I have taken several OW classes from several agencies. All of my experience has been that all agencies except GUE (and they don't have OW) do not teach equipment specific techniques. They talk about an OCT, or an inflator that has a 2nd stage on it, but make no demand on using a specific one. EXCEPT GUE. Like I say, they don't have OW classes, but they do say AIR II and such are useless and they won't let you use them. I think the other agencies should take their lead.
Think about it.
The standard inflator can be used as a second stage as it is. All one has to do is put it in your mouth and depress both buttons at once. Everyone should have the same kind of equipment. In the case of an emergency, you find a diver at the bottom and you have to figure out which button needs to be pushed to inflate the BC. Precious time is wasted. The use of an OCT hanging as ones side is flawed also. When you need the backup 2nd stage it should be hanging on a neckless under your chin. Ready for use. No need looking for it to put it in your mouth. It can be put in your mouth alot quicker than an oct hanging somewhere on your BC.
Another example of this kind of crap is something I saw a OW instructor have on his BC. It was a leaver on the left side of his BC, at the bottom, when he pulled the handle, his air in his BC inflated or deflated. Just as stupid as the Dacor "Hub System". Another gimmik to sell crap. Just like snorkles, pink fins, and other "girlie man junk"

Your way too rigid! Adapt and survive! Be ready for anything and if you can't find your left shoulder in the dark you need to stay out of the dark! NO all equipment does not need to be the same! You need to pay attention and have a talk with a new Buddy, but your regular Buddy should know your configuration and competent enough to help or you should not go into dark places with that person! BTW you can't hold your breath for 7 seconds? The time it takes to find your left side? Hummmm?????

 

[clint@uniquescuba.com]

In reference to the Original Post:

1. We do not, or are we allowed to teach Buddy Breathing of any kind, no matter technique or equipment configuration.

2. We do have several air sharing drills that we teach and practice with a safe second (octo). We do not teach or train people with an AirII style regulator.

We merely see the AIRII style to be an invented solution to a problem that never really existed in the first place. If you dive with one, that's cool. They are just not for us.

 

[DA Aquamaster]

I have seen Air II's used in PADI, SSI and YMCA cert courses.

I prefer a long hose primary and bungeed octo - on everything except my tropical travel wing and reg because it adds a lot to what is a very lightweight and streamlined configuration.

So my thoughts are to use what is optimum for the dive.

One advantage that exists with training divers to use th Air 2 is that they learn to donate the primary and that prepares them much better for a real world air share where the donating diver is most often going to be mugged for their primary. In my opinion, the major problems with octo use and training are 1) divers configure with an octo located where it can be hard to find when they realt need it and/or be dislodged in a struggle and be very hard to find and 2) training to donate the octo, not the primary, does not prepare the student for real world emergencies.

 

[rstofer]

I had drafted a really long reply but it seemed like a rehash of the other thread.

Since the vast majority of new OW students are taught with rental gear, it is unlikely they will be exposed to Air II devices until after they are certified. I suspect this will skew the poll.

Richard

 

[rstofer]

Everyone should have the same kind of equipment. In the case of an emergency, you find a diver at the bottom and you have to figure out which button needs to be pushed to inflate the BC. Precious time is wasted.

Well, that is a pretty strong view!

That probably means that wetsuits should be outlawed (or is it drysuits?) because they aren't the same as "what I have".

There could be a tremendous difference between rescuing a wetsuit diver, a drysuit diver and a T-shirt diver. In fact, I KNOW I have no idea how to control a drysuit. If there is air in the suit when I start the rescue, I KNOW there will be a runaway ascent. I have never used a drysuit and I probably never will. When I took rescue, drysuits were unheard of. Heck, we didn't use wetsuits either. If you use a drysuit, just hope that someone else is on scene because if I have to rescue you "you're gonna die...". You're equipement isn't "what I have" so it must be wrong!

If my buddy is too stupid to figure out that the small button inflates the BC and the great big button deflates it, after I point it out, I'll find another buddy. If I survive...

Really, I wish people would leave out the "you're gonna die..." thing. It just isn't true. Not about drysuits and not about Air II devices.

I imagine that every drysuit diver briefs their wetsuit insta-buddy on the intricacies of buoyancy control. So I suspect every Air II diver could do the same for their 'conventional octo' insta-buddy.

In the end, your buddy should NOT be your backup plan.

Richard

 

[rstofer]

In reference to the Original Post:

1. We do not, or are we allowed to teach Buddy Breathing of any kind, no matter technique or equipment configuration.

2. We do have several air sharing drills that we teach and practice with a safe second (octo). We do not teach or train people with an AirII style regulator.

We merely see the AIRII style to be an invented solution to a problem that never really existed in the first place. If you dive with one, that's cool. They are just not for us.

I am very curious about the prohibition about buddy breathing. NAUI did teach that back in the late '80s but I see it is no longer in vogue.

I'm sorry about this being off topic but could you tell my why it is no longer taught?

Richard

 

[sibermike7]

I was certified 25 years ago both with PADI and NAUI. We did learn and had to demonstrate buddy-breathing because the students often didn't have octos!
Our check out dives in the ocean were performed without octos. Only the instructors had them back then. We used the old Mae West style BCs.

What's an AirII?

 

[sibermike7]

Oh, I almost forgot. Caver, relax, take a few breaths, and lighten up before you have a coronary! Not everybody has to do it exactly like you. If some girl wants hot pink fins, so what? (or bright yellow for that matter!)

If you can't enjoy diving, stay out of the water!

 

[ScubaSteve]

I had drafted a really long reply but it seemed like a rehash of the other thread.

Since the vast majority of new OW students are taught with rental gear, it is unlikely they will be exposed to Air II devices until after they are certified. I suspect this will skew the poll.

Richard

Richard,

Thank you for not rehashing the other thread. As I indicated in the original post, this thread stems directly from the other because it got me to thinking. And there is nothing skewing the results of this poll. I am simply asking what equipment people were trained with. I am curious because of what was said in the other thread....it got me thinking about my training versus other people's training. That is all.

There is nothing sinister in this poll or it's results. If people were trained on Octo only, then that is that. If they were tained on both, then that is my answer. I am just looking for facts and that is all.

But I hope you took the time to post your poll. Thanks everybody.

 

[Grover48]

I am newly certified. I learned from a PADI instructor. We learned both techniques - AIR2 and OCTO.

When I bought my new gear, I bought a Scubapro Knight Hawk BCD with Air2. On the 2nd stage regulator, I put a yellow sleeve to identify it easier if someone should need to use it. My dive buddy and I have practiced the regulator grabbing, panicking diver drill.