Ontario Flag Laws

[ScubaSteve]

Thank you for posting here Scott. It is great to know that the ABMP is still going strong. I would appreciate it if you coul do me the favour of posting a link to the page where people can sign up to become a ABMP sponsor. I am interested in this but because anything to do with Dive Flags has been buried deep within the OUC website, it is not obvious how to sponsor that specific program.

While I think it is great that people can sponsor this and get a couple signs to put up, I am a firm believer that until there is a fundamental change from our government, all the education in the world will only scratch the surface. Too many boaters will feel "put out" or "inconvenienced" by the dive flag and will only resent divers for being there and will rebel by not respecting our safety. If these were LAWS with actual consequences, I am sure more boaters would respect the flag more (I realize you will never get 100%). Hopefully the absence of rules changes. Today there is no implicit instructions to the boater on how to behave around a dive flag (obviously I do not feel "steer clear and drive slow" are imlicit instructions) which makes the wishy washy existing law pretty much useless (nothing more than a way for lawyers to make money at some point).

Please post that link so those who wish to support this can. The issue of Dive Flag Awareness seems to have been put aside (by everybody) and perhaps change can happen if it gets put up front again.

EDIT: Since you are a new member, you can PM me the web address and I can post it (or you can get your post count to past 5 so that you can post the address). Either will work.

 

[roastbeef]

The Aviva Barth Memorial Project is still alive and well, and always looking for sponsors and volunteers to spread the word. It's discouraging to hear that some posted signs have been vandalized and/or removed.

Yes! and those persons are park workers if you don't have provincial or town council permission with a permit for your sign they look at them as graffiti and take them down. We tried signs at Big Bay point for many years with no luck it took us almost ten years to get them to put a garbage can there. Allowing signs means some one has to take responsibility for any accident that may occur at the location and no horse drawn plow digging official wants that. I've appreciated the work the OUC did back in the early days of diving across Canada when it had over 2000 paying members today it barely exist with limited financial funds and a air test program that's heading for the clinker do to new government air test regulations and procedure requirements its definitely a noble effort by the current operating members to try and keep it afloat I will give them that but with out that air test program there history.


RB

 

[madpenguin]

Those interested in sponsoring ABMP can contact any one the regional coordinators or directors through email for now, and I'll try to get better information up on the site in the next month or so. It might be best to contact me directly as it's within my portfolio. I'm at ouc.safety<"@">underwatercouncil.com.

I agree that laws would definitely change things, but the widely held fear across the industry (not just in Ontario) is that it might open the door to wider regulation of SCUBA in various regions. We divers generally enjoys the luxury of being self regulated by the industry in most of the world with Quebec being one of the few exceptions. This status is a privilege and every time we raise the government's awareness we run the risk (though no one knows how great a risk) of having that privilege taken away.

Boaters have had this happen to varying extents and while there are benefits, it can also cripple a sport if not done very carefully by informed individuals.

As you can imagine, those of you who know about the difficulties the air testing program (CAPIP) has been facing, this is really my primary focus and has been since I was made aware of the gravity of the issue in December after taking office in late November.

There aren't really any new government regulations, the CSA standard for compressed breathing air and systems has been around for quite some time. In spite of CAPIP's 40+ years of history it took that long for the Ministry of Labour to get truly interested in us. They're doing exactly what I would want them to do in the circumstances. Of course their interest is in air supplied to anyone who's collecting a pay check while using it.

Firefighters are at the top of the list as are commercial divers and instructors. The MOL isn't at all interested in air supplied to recreational divers, as is the the case of governments in most regions. And that's how we happened to stay under their radar for so long. It wasn't until they drew the connection between the fire halls and the dive shops that this became an issue. Now we're here and steps are being taken. Their concerns are largely around documentation or the lack of it, something I'm working very hard to address by building an entire library of literature around what we do and how we do it.

Scott Holmes
Director of Sport Safety
Ontario Underwater Council

 

[roastbeef]

Hi Scott

Danny Hutton and Fred Harley both told me about your meeting with them and explained the air testing dilema, I hope you new guys at OUC can pull it off. In the early days the OUC certified dive shops based on the condition of the compressor and its assembly first and once passed than an air test was processed for certification. Good luck and I hope you guys can pull it off we need the OUC or some one over looking air quality assurance.

Roast Beef

 

[shoredivr]

We divers generally enjoys the luxury of being self regulated by the industry in most of the world with Quebec being one of the few exceptions. This status is a privilege and every time we raise the government's awareness we run the risk (though no one knows how great a risk) of having that privilege taken away.

Boaters have had this happen to varying extents and while there are benefits, it can also cripple a sport if not done very carefully by informed individuals.

[....]

There aren't really any new government regulations, the CSA standard for compressed breathing air and systems has been around for quite some time. In spite of CAPIP's 40+ years of history it took that long for the Ministry of Labour to get truly interested in us. They're doing exactly what I would want them to do in the circumstances. Of course their interest is in air supplied to anyone who's collecting a pay check while using it.

[...]

Now we're here and steps are being taken. Their concerns are largely around documentation or the lack of it, something I'm working very hard to address by building an entire library of literature around what we do and how we do it.

Scott Holmes
Director of Sport Safety
Ontario Underwater Council

Thanks for posting, Scott. But tell me this isn't the thin end of the wedge....not wanting to end up like Quebec.

 

[madpenguin]

Thanks for posting, Scott. But tell me this isn't the thin end of the wedge....not wanting to end up like Quebec.

Who's to say what the catalyzing event might be? However I doubt MOL's involvement is it. Like I said before, their only interest is in workers. Those that collect a pay cheque while performing a task. Recreational diving by definition is avocational, and thus outside the MOL's jurisdiction. They've stated this clearly and it's very well understood by all parties.

Scott Holmes
Director Sport Safety,
Ontario Underwater Council

 

[shoredivr]

That's good, then!