OOA at 60 feet

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Just one VERY important point. You do understand that running out of gas had absolutely nothing to do with your "short fill", right?

But it did. It was one link in what is sometimes called the "long, thin chain" of accident analysis. If he had started the dive with a full 120, then the incident probably would not have occurred. I don't know whether the data bears this out, but anecdotally, short-filled cylinders and undersize cylinders (e.g. dives undertaken with only a pony cylinder) seem to me to be overrepresented in accidents.

I continue to maintain that one of the best ways to avoid running out of air is to bring lots of air -- enough that there is a substantial reserve and the dive is ordinarily turned for reasons other than reaching turn pressure (or rock bottom). These could include seeing everything at a particular location, fatigue, reaching NDL, or the end of a time window.
 
You would ascend at a slow rate and then do a safety stop for ideally 3 minutes if not as long as possible before running out of air and then you would surface
 
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But it did.

I believe the point is - gas monitoring should not be blamed for any amount of gas - because if you are looking you know how much you have or don't have and you must tailor your dive to your gas...

Unless you are trying to make some kind of obscure link - you must agree - you must watch your gas consumption on the dive regardless of tank size or fill.
Right? :)
 
I will double check, but I'm 98% sure it was a HP steel 120. Maybe the boat could not fill past a certain pressure? I will ask my instructor for clarification.
One of the problems some people encounter with HP tanks is not getting them filled to their capacity. There could be other issues as well.

Several years ago I was diving with an operator that routinely supplies HP 120s to its customers. It is well known for doing that, and I had done many dives with them. One day we did the first dive of a two tank dive and then had a surface interval at a restaurant on the beach while the DM and skipper stayed on the boat. We returned and were surprised to find our tanks were only filled to 3000 PSI--everyone of us. We mentioned it, and the DM gave us a surprised look and said that tanks are always filled to 3000. This was not the first rodeo for any of us, so we called BS on that. He insisted. What were we do do? We did the dive, and after it, the DMs actions confirmed what we suspected--he was in such a hurry to get the boat back and get us off of it that it was obvious he had dumped air to cut our dives short.

Now, you were on a liveaboard, so it was a different story, but it could be related. If the liveaboard is trying to keep to a schedule, it might have been intentionally underfilling your big tanks in order to make sure you finished the dives in time for them to hold to their schedule.
 
Two things come to mind... I agree that the short fill really wasn't why you ran OOA. That happened because you failed to monitor your supply. True enough that had you had more air, you may not have run out, or you may have run out later in the dive when you were pushing the NDL, at which point the speedy ascent and lack of safety stop might have resulted in DCS.

Regarding skipping the safety stop, to quote my Diving Doctor/Coroner friend... "We can fix bent. We can't fix dead".

In an ideal world, a safety stop would be nice, but it sounds like you guys were in a "marginally comfortable" situation, so IMHO, the right solution was the one you chose... get up and be happy.
 
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I believe the point is - gas monitoring should not be blamed for any amount of gas - because if you are looking you know how much you have or don't have and you must tailor your dive to your gas...

Unless you are trying to make some kind of obscure link - you must agree - you must watch your gas consumption on the dive regardless of tank size or fill.
Right? :)

Sure, we agree that you have to watch your gas consumption on every dive. It's vital.

The point I'm trying to make is that accidents/incidents nearly always have more than one cause --- and this one certainly does. Accident analysis is about addressing all the causes and putting safe equipment, procedures, and attitudes in place to ameliorate as many of them as is practicable. The rip in the mask (or whatever the problem may have been with it) was part of the cause because the incident would not have occurred but for the fact that the mask leaked. The short filled cylinder was part of the cause because the incident would not have occurred but for the short filled cylinder. Failure to monitor the SPG was part of the cause because the incident would not have occurred but for the short filled cylinder.

Failure to monitor the SPG is perhaps the most basic and critical mistake, and most immediately in control of the diver. But let's not overlook the other causes.

Gear problems are in practice a matter of judgment but a mask that will not work as it should is a reason to call the dive. In like fashion, diving a short-filled cylinder, while not inherently dangerous, is not as safe a practice as insisting on a full cylinder for every dive.

One of the problems some people encounter with HP tanks is not getting them filled to their capacity.

I dive HP120s and find that this is an ongoing problem. The dive shops I use for fills won't adjust their fill pressure above 3442 to compensate for temperature, so I have to leave cylinders with them for a day so that they can fill them, allow them to cool for several hours, and then top them off. I check every one of them before leaving the shop and occasionally find one that is a few hundred PSI short.

Several years ago I was diving with an operator that routinely supplies HP 120s to its customers. It is well known for doing that, and I had done many dives with them. One day we did the first dive of a two tank dive and then had a surface interval at a restaurant on the beach while the DM and skipper stayed on the boat. We returned and were surprised to find our tanks were only filled to 3000 PSI--everyone of us. We mentioned it, and the DM gave us a surprised look and said that tanks are always filled to 3000. This was not the first rodeo for any of us, so we called BS on that. He insisted. What were we do do? We did the dive, and after it, the DMs actions confirmed what we suspected--he was in such a hurry to get the boat back and get us off of it that it was obvious he had dumped air to cut our dives short.

Now, you were on a liveaboard, so it was a different story, but it could be related. If the liveaboard is trying to keep to a schedule, it might have been intentionally underfilling your big tanks in order to make sure you finished the dives in time for them to hold to their schedule.

Wow. That's maybe not quite as bad as the guy who dumped gravel on the road in front of his house so that the motorcycles won't go around the corner as fast, but close.
 
Thanks for posting. By doing so you show that you want to be a better diver. Take to heed the constructive comments. 2airishuman's points are especially cogent. Little annoyances (leaking or fogging mask) can set a diver up for major mistakes.

You got lucky, but having a capable buddy nearby gave you a workable plan z. A valuable lesson learned. Just remember we learn more by our failures than by our successes.

Fun (and safe) diving
 
But it did. It was one link in what is sometimes called the "long, thin chain" of accident analysis. If he had started the dive with a full 120, then the incident probably would not have occurred.

Sorry, no. It 100% did NOT have anything to do with the short fill. No one should draw that conclusion.

This is not the one little thing that starts the incident chain. I'm not saying that little problems can't snowball into bigger ones, but this is absolutely not one of those things. A leaky mask, a sticky regulator, a stuck inflator hose - sure, those are good examples. A short fill isn't.

No matter how much gas you start with, you have to be situationally aware enough to know how much you have left at any given time. At every point in the dive. Other than a burst LP hose, the only explanation for running out of gas is that you weren't paying attention to your SPG. And that error happens whether you start with a regular fill, a cave fill, or half a tank. In this case, he had 2850 in a steel 120. If it's a Faber, that's about 96 CUF of gas. Hard for a recreational diver to blame an OOG on "only" having 96 CUF.
 
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I hope this shows up.....
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/perdix-ai/

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