PDIC- What in the WORLD are yall thinking?

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Its how they draw in great potential instructors, even Jim is involved in some way. Obviously any one can be an instructor, they do it in the most minimal dives.

PDIC attracts the knowledgeable ones that have there belief, to bad about customer service, but hey Mel fixed that Issue and decided to just put it On someone with better PR.
 
With all due respect, neither of those items are particularly telling of a significant difference in quality ... at least from where I sit.

Well then I guess your benchmarks are different than mine. Since this thread is not about what the best agency is I am probably done here.
My point was that I had respect for the knowledge base of PDIC just not the administration. I don't want to engage anyone in a mines better than yours discussion. You could go start that thread if you wish but I think its been done before.
 
I'm not interested in a mine's better than yours, since that is irrelevant to what I do and teach. I'm genuinely interested in what agency differences are and all that I know about PDIC I know through Mel and family and Scott's "Demand Educator." Neither exactly blew me away, so I ask, "what in standards makes them better?" I'd like to know what your views are. If you have expressed them in full, then I have to conclude that PDIC is just the same-old/same-old, I thought it way, and that's fine.

Judging an agency's standards based on a comparison of two individuals strikes me as rather foolish. Besides, I would expect Trace to be head and shoulders above Bob since you are comparing a National Training Director to a Private Instructor, who holds down a non-diving day job ... and frankly I don't see that Bob comes off bad at all in the comparison.
 
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For PDIC as an agency and for PDIC instructors this thread started out negatively with an unhappy customer who deserved both politeness and service from PDIC HQ. Then, we received news through this thread that PDIC and SEI had merged. Yes! I actually heard it here in SB first! This merger will be a good and positive move for both agencies, I'm sure. PDIC gains the professionalism its members and customers deserve through SEI HQ and SEI gains the ability to maintain RSTC status and perhaps inheret a technical program which it lacked. Please, let's not turn this thread back into yet another negative battle between agencies or professionals about whose way is the correct way.

I was thinking about "correct" ways to dive, standards, and attitude problems in the diving industry over the past couple of days. We've got tech divers vs. recreational divers, cave divers vs. tech divers, sidemount divers vs. backmount divers, rebreather divers vs. open circuit divers, DIR divers vs. those who prefer more individuality, old school training vs. new school, agency vs. agency, and a whole host of topics that divide us. I'm going to share my thoughts on this in a moment.

But, first, I want to say while I appreciate being praised for my dedication to the sport in this thread (Thank you!), I don't find myself feeling good about it when it comes at the expense of another diver who may be just as passionate and dedicated. We all have strengths and weaknesses as divers and dive professionals and sometimes both are exhibited in one form or another while participating in Internet idea exchange such as here in ScubaBoard.

Returning to my thoughts on dive training, I want to compare this sport to aviation. Most pilots learn to fly fixed wing aircraft to start. Obviously, in an airplane such as a Cessna 206T the aircraft needs to travel forward to gain lift. If it stops in the air, it will crash. Now, a helicopter such as the Bell Jet Ranger may stop in flight. It can also go backwards and spin 360 degrees on it's axis. A third aircraft using vertical take-off and landing (VTOL) such as the Osprey can behave a little bit like a helo but performs best as a fixed-wing aircraft.

Divers today are much like these types of aircraft. Because of shorter courses and reduced standards for both divers and professionals most divers enter the sport and perform much like a Cessna. They need to swim to maintain buoyancy and/or trim and they have their best control when propelling themselves forward. Some of these divers go on to various tech and cave classes in which they learn to move like a helicopter underwater by hovering, rotating, moving backwards, slipping sideways, and the like. This is much like a pilot learning to fly helicopters after training on fixed-wing aircraft which I believe is the most popular route for helo pilots in the aviation industry. Some who start out with DIR training skip fixed-wing flight and go right into flying like a helicopter underwater - much like a pilot who goes to a helicopter school for his first flight lesson. Finally, we have the "old school" agencies such as PDIC, NAUI, and YMCA (SEI) which had very similar standards back in the day. These agencies producerd divers who had more maneuverability underwater such as excellent forward movement, good trim and buoyancy, but may have lacked some of the proficiency when totally static in the water or when trying to back up, rotate etc. Comparing these agencies to today's standards of propulsion such as in DIR diving and a growing trend among tech and cave divers to emulate the proficiency of trim, buoyancy and propulsion would be like comparing a VTOL aircraft to a helicopter.

When it comes to emergencies (gas sharing/crashing), VTOL aircraft and helicopters have far more control in emergency situations than your typical fixed-wing aircraft. But, the goal of both aviation safety and dive safety is to avoid those situations through good training, proper pre-dive/pre-flight checks, proper equipment and skill maintenance and lastly the decision-making abilities of the diver/pilot to avoid trouble, i.e., not diving or flying in conditions that may be beyond your ability and experience.

Just as every pilot wouldn't want to fly a helo, or a VTOL a/c, or a glider (thinking of freedivers now), not every diver wants to dive a certain way or put in extra time needed to develop certain skills, but every diver wants to be safe. If we compare aviation accident statistics, I'm sure we could find aircraft that have better crash survival rates than others, but many pilots fly for fun and in the interest of fun will even fly old aircraft or aircraft whose air worthiness is questionable. Each of us places a different value on our own lives and the training choices we make reflects both how we define fun and our levels of financial and time commitments.

I'm not a pilot, but I doubt a new helicopter pilot would snub a 30 year veteran fixed-wing pilot just because the helo can do more, yet we see that in diving. Divers, like pilots, can choose their training paths which hopefully will lead to safety.

Standards of safety such as PDIC's are fairly thorough. It's a physically demanding program compared to most modern approaches and encompasses lots of confidence-building skills such as buddy-breathing, no mask buddy-breathing, BC assisted ascents, lots of gear removal and replacement on the surface and below, and all-manner of challenges that go back to the spirit of the era in which it formed along with L.A. County, NASDS, YMCA, and NAUI as I mentioned. Not one of these programs is really any better or any worse than the other. Personally, I was always very impressed with the building block approach PDIC had in which one skill was truly developed before a corresponding skill was added such as proficiency with mask clearing & removal while snorkeling and freediving before moving into scuba and finally mask clearing and removal during skills as a task-loading exercise. PDIC was never in love with how they did things as much as the result so you could move on to a stronger skill and return to weaker ones prior to moving to open water.

We must be careful not to confuse high-standards with high results 100% of the time. That is not a standards problem, but rather, one of quality-control. It's difficult for large agencies to police quality control among its professionals and much easier for smaller agencies. However, if someone cares enough in a large agency it can be done. In a small agency, if someone stops caring quality-control can slide even if you only have 5 instructors to check on. Because C-cards are currently lifetime it is difficult to police the quality of students after training. I recently was horrified to see one of my students had gone so far off the reservation from all we worked on in training by placing his gear back into a configuration that I taught him wasn't a good choice for wreck and solo diving and not maintaining the skills we worked so hard to achieve in class.

An agency such as GUE has high standards, maintains a high level of quality control among professionals, and has C-cards which expire and therefore you can weed out divers who go far off the reservation. But, this system isn't perfect either. When I look at the archives for instructors in their database many highly experienced instructors are no longer teaching. Many of the instructors are what I'd consider to be relatively new compared to standards like PDIC in which it took 3 years of diving to become a dive supervisor (dive master). I highly respect GUE, but I'd probably burn out with the amount of hoops instructors need to jump through regarding money, time, travel, re-certification, and interning over and over again. In a system such as that it is easy to burn out and leave the professional side of the sport just as you have the most to offer beyond gear, skill, and team training.

What I like about agencies such as PDIC is the fact that I was surrounded by long-time divers who were old salts and a constant source of history, knowledge and experience. My DIR training helped me to swim like a helicopter flies and fly in formation like the Blue Angels, but what I gained from PDIC can't easily be placed into words. I know Thal knows what I'm talking about with NAUI and Scripps.

Fortunately, many PDIC professionals I know and admired have joined me at PSAI and the fit was a great one for those dive professionals who do not want to be boxed in by low standards or one way of doing things. I made the choice to find solid ground under my feet when PDIC was in danger of imploding due to the understandable, yet unfortunate attitude, of a long-time friend in a time of crisis. Many dedicated instructors offered to help keep the ship sailing, but we were turned away and finally deiced to abandon ship. Most of us kept our PDIC professional ratings - me included. BUt, we needed materials, C-cards, and a progressive agency to help us continue to be successful professionals - especially in a tough economy. Fortunately, for me, I found a place that allowed me to keep teaching what I LOVE TO TEACH SO MUCH - DIVING! And, in all its forms.

No agency is perfect. Some of the old-timers (owners & instructors) are still stuck in 1962. Some of the newer agency owners & instructors are too cocky to respect their elders. I was very fortunate to have both groups impact my personal diving.

In the end, it's really about the instructor. A great instructor whose agency standards limit his ability to impart knowledge gained from experience or whose agency standards don't allow for adequate training will not be all he can be for his students. I've been fortunate that PDIC started me off believing I would make the greatest difference in the lives of my students and gave me quality tools to start that journey. SAdly, the tools aged and weren't always updated or replaced, but like Dave (wedivebc) mentioned, you find treasured gems hidden away in old manuals. Yet, at the same time, I now have a complete library of manuals and power points from PSAI to help facilitate student learning. Some manuals are excellent. Most are very good. A couple I'm not thrilled about, but PSAI also updates manuals every couple of years which is great! What I don't like today can be made better tomorrow.

PSAI isn't the greatest agency on earth either. None are. Greatness is achieved when the student is motivated to learn and the instructor is motivated to teach. This can take place at any agency. What I lost as a full-time PDIC professional was the motivation of the agency to join me in the process of trying to find and motivate students to learn. I know Dave didn't mean the agency sucked. His post just reminded me of how sad I was when someone whose admiration and praise I tried to earn more and more every year as I grew into a better professional dive after dive was too overwhelmed by personal events that he checked out on those of us who loved PDIC.

I still love PDIC and have nothing but gratitude for the Murphy family and for those who supported the organization over the years as instructors, dive supervisors and students. I hope this change benefits both agencies as I plan to lend my professional support to both SEI and PDIC in their joint goal of producing quality divers.

I'm glad I can teach a little old school stuff with a lot of new stuff. I'm hoping every PDIC, SEI, PSAI, TDI, GUE, NAUI, etc., professional who loves to teach and devotes a lot of time being the best instructor he or she can be (no matter what aircraft he/she enjoys mimicking underwater) finds that the new stuff taught today is the old stuff being taught in a the far off tomorrows of a lifelong career teaching in the world's most marvelous classroom!
 
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This is just another example of the need for an oversight agency, and a set of defined standards. This type of no customer service would cease and desist. This is what happens when anyone can open up a certification agency, this needs to stop.

I strongly disagree with this. In a market economy the weak and badly managed businesses will eventually die a death of incompetence (or in some cases bad luck). I don't know anything about PDIC and I don't have a bone to pick with them but from the sound of this thread I would say that their management is their own worst enemy.

Nevertheless there needs to be room for startups, regardless of how small they are. Innovation comes from new blood and new ideas taking form and the LAST thing we need is anything that stands in the way of people with a good idea (or even bad ideas) trying to enrich the market.

What you're suggesting sounds a lot like government regulation, perhaps similar to how things work for getting a driver's license. Well.. I can guarantee you that government regulation does not solve all problems and make the world perfect. If you want proof of that, just drive out onto the freeway today and look around.

R..
 
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