Pre Rescue Course - so challenge me!

[InTheDrink]

Probably the best directly dive related PT training I do is fin kicks in the pool. I have a pair of smaller pool fins and do 1/2 mile forward kicks (holding a small boogie board) and 1/2 mile backwards kicks (it works slightly different muscle groups) then 1/2 mile frontcrawl. Try keeping your legs as straight as possible to work the core muscle groups, you can tell you are getting tired when your kicks degrade to modified flutters. Other than that I do the treadmill and stationary bike.

Likewise, I've got a small pair of pool fins. However the health and safety people won't let me wear them during normal pool times!!! Such a nanny nation. Idiots whirling their arms around bashing into anything near are OK but me with no arms and frog kick in tiny fins is an unacceptable health hazard. I despair sometimes.

I can use the training fins once a week during scuba pool sessions but that's a big waste of scuba time. However, sounds like the demands of the rescue course might require this (small) temporary sacrifice.

Man, I do hate the Health and Safety people.

J

 

[paddler3d]

Second, improve your physical strength in general and swimming skills in particular. It's nice to learn the rescue techniques in theory and practice in a controlled environment but if one is too winded to actually tow someone for any real distance or too weak to lift someone out of the water ones effectiveness in real life will be diminished.

I will second the physical strength part and general swimming. That is definitely an area you will need to be strong in. The tired diver tows and breathing while towing in will be quite a challenge.

No question physical stamina plays a big role in it all. Sometimes I think that one of the best things about the Rescue course is that it shows the divers how hard and physically challenging it truly is to actually try to rescue someone. It is a real wake up call.

One thing that has been mentioned repeatedly through this thread is swimming skills. I'm presuming this is with fins rather than without. For sure, I can boogie pretty well with my jets. I'm not so hot without fins though. Hoping that won't be an issue (fyi, I have re-started swimming lessons to improve my non-fin swimming technique).

Probably the best directly dive related PT training I do is fin kicks in the pool. I have a pair of smaller pool fins and do 1/2 mile forward kicks (holding a small boogie board) and 1/2 mile backwards kicks (it works slightly different muscle groups) then 1/2 mile frontcrawl. Try keeping your legs as straight as possible to work the core muscle groups, you can tell you are getting tired when your kicks degrade to modified flutters. Other than that I do the treadmill and stationary bike.

As you noticed, there seems to be a thread hear about the physical aspect.

I don't know if you're lucky enough to get to a pool where you can simply drag someone back and forth across the pool for a while.

When I did my rescue class, all of the other students had washed out and it was just me and three instructors...

When we were doing all the scenarios for evaluation, I had to do them back to back. I really thought I was going to throw up on the poor 'victim' by the time we got to the final exercise.

It is a lot of work to tow the diver while doing the rescue breathing and everything else your have to do.

Borrow someone sea anchor (as boating thing) and swim with that in the pool.

It is definitely a physical course.

 

[InTheDrink]

As you noticed, there seems to be a thread hear about the physical aspect.

I don't know if you're lucky enough to get to a pool where you can simply drag someone back and forth across the pool for a while.

When I did my rescue class, all of the other students had washed out and it was just me and three instructors...

When we were doing all the scenarios for evaluation, I had to do them back to back. I really thought I was going to throw up on the poor 'victim' by the time we got to the final exercise.

It is a lot of work to tow the diver while doing the rescue breathing and everything else your have to do.

Borrow someone sea anchor (as boating thing) and swim with that in the pool.

It is definitely a physical course.

Thanks for your post and I will likely not have the opportunity to do what you suggest prior to going unfortunately.

One significant point - and I'm hoping TSandM will wade in here - is that my wife, who is cabin crew for a large UK airline and has to do EFR training each year, has advised me that the latest thinking on CPR is that the breathing element is essentially pointless and that it is the heart compressions that are by far the most valuable and to this extent they are suggesting that only this element is used during CPR forthwith.

Has anyone any info on this and whether and how this would feedback into the Rescue course? Even if less effective I'm guessing rescue breaths would be more effective than nothing whilst towing a diver (given that in-water chest compressions aren't an option) or whether ignoring rescue breaths and getting the diver to a firm platform more quickly to perform compressions is preferable? Slightly OT, soz.

Edit: on checking with my wife the ratio is 2 breaths to 30 compressions. So clearly they don't view it as totally pointless.

J

 

[paddler3d]

Thanks for your post and I will likely not have the opportunity to do what you suggest prior to going unfortunately.

One significant point - and I'm hoping TSandM will wade in here - is that my wife, who is cabin crew for a large UK airline and has to do EFR training each year, has advised me that the latest thinking on CPR is that the breathing element is essentially pointless and that it is the heart compressions that are by far the most valuable and to this extent they are suggesting that only this element is used during CPR forthwith.

Has anyone any info on this and whether and how this would feedback into the Rescue course? Even if less effective I'm guessing rescue breaths would be more effective than nothing whilst towing a diver (given that in-water chest compressions aren't an option) or whether ignoring rescue breaths and getting the diver to a firm platform more quickly to perform compressions is preferable? Slightly OT, soz.

Edit: on checking with my wife the ratio is 2 breaths to 30 compressions. So clearly they don't view it as totally pointless.

J

I did my Rescue through SDI. SDI still wanted the rescue breathing while towing. My instructor was also PADI certified and I believe she said that PADI didn't want the breathing while towing.

The rescue breathing while towing definitely, IMHO, was silly and a waste of time. We timed it in my course. I wasted around 20-25s while trying to stop and do the rescue breathing over the course of 50m's. To me I felt like I would be doing the victim a better service by getting them to the boat or shore. Of course each situation is different and is going to require a different course of action.

 

[InTheDrink]

I did my Rescue through SDI. SDI still wanted the rescue breathing while towing. My instructor was also PADI certified and I believe she said that PADI didn't want the breathing while towing.

The rescue breathing while towing definitely, IMHO, was silly and a waste of time. We timed it in my course. I wasted around 20-25s while trying to stop and do the rescue breathing over the course of 50m's. To me I felt like I would be doing the victim a better service by getting them to the boat or shore. Of course each situation is different and is going to require a different course of action.

From what I've heard, the prognosis for an unconscious diver isn't great. It sounds like getting them somewhere safe quickly would be the best course of action but of course I don't really know. My two PADI trained buddies (OWSI and DM) have been trained for the in-water rescue breaths so as of whenever, that was still the PADI operating procedure. Will be interested to see if that has now changed as per your comment.

J

 

[DaleC]

From a practical POV, repetitive chest compressions that effectively perfuse are the priority over ventilation. You can skip a ventilation or place it out of sequence with little detriment but not so with compressions.
Something that did disturb me though was the negation of the pulse check in the course material. It was explained to me that most people can't properly check for a pulse so the training skips that step now. I said howsawhatsit??
I'd like to hear Lynnes opinion on that one.

 

[timle]

IMHO people were wasting too much time looking for a pulse. Also the advice about chest compressions only seems sound to me on land most likely a heart attack and they are probably not oxygen deprived yet. I'm not sure if the logic holds true in the water.

 

[DaleC]

To clarify, I was refering to CPR once started on land. I don't believe that CPR would be very effective in water.
I don't think it is a waste of time to check for a pulse if one knows how to do it. I was more than a little concerned that this skill was considered difficult but then I was introduced to a defibrillator. If my knowledge of Hypocrates still stands, it's worse to stop a heart that is already beating than to fail to start one that is not.

 

[parkerco]

From a practical POV, repetitive chest compressions that effectively perfuse are the priority over ventilation. You can skip a ventilation or place it out of sequence with little detriment but not so with compressions.
Something that did disturb me though was the negation of the pulse check in the course material. It was explained to me that most people can't properly check for a pulse so the training skips that step now. I said howsawhatsit??
I'd like to hear Lynnes opinion on that one.

Hmm ... that's only in the water though, I believe? Studying for my rescue class at the end of this month and I haven't seen anything about not doing a circulation check, just that it's ineffective/difficult in the water so not to worry about it until the victim is on land/boat ...

 

[InTheDrink]

IMHO people were wasting too much time looking for a pulse. Also the advice about chest compressions only seems sound to me on land most likely a heart attack and they are probably not oxygen deprived yet. I'm not sure if the logic holds true in the water.

My *guess* is as per another poster in that in-water rescue breaths are likely to delay getting to boat/land and that this time would be better spent hastening getting to land or boat to do compressions. I would imagine that this would all be dependant on the environment of course and if land or boat was not readily accessible then rescue breaths would be better than naught. But if the patient could be gotten to land/boat quickly then perhaps all efforts should be focussed on that.

I'm feeling slightly embarrassed - I probably shouldn't be voicing any opinion on any of this given my near absolute ignorance on the topic and currently not being EFR or rescue trained.

Be good if a board med could dive in.

J