Providing Emergency O2

[NW Dive Dawg]

So other than getting the "card" that may make it easier to get fills........ What is it in the O2 admin course that cannot be 100% clarified and 100% learned in an online or virtual course?

I ask this because as an example....... in the PADI Enriched Air Diver Course, I can see absolutely zero benefit from taking the time and expense of doing the actual dives. As long as you fully understand all of the physics and MOD limits...... then the dives are really nothing more than paying PADI to follow the specified parameters, limits. etc.... and then normally inhale and exhale and repeat as necessary.

 

[Zef]

PADI doesn’t require dives for their nitrox cert, unless something recently changed. NAUI required 2 dives when my daughter took the course a few years ago.

I can’t speak for the PADI course, but in the DAN emergency O2 provider course I took, I recall having to demonstrate safe handling, proper mask selection, set up of reg on bottle and mask connection, administration of O2, monitoring of system and patient, and making appropriate changes to the O2 flow based on the scenario presented, as a practical application of what was learned during the course.

Whether any or all of the hands on is truly “needed” is debateable. I thought it was worthwhile and since it requires handling of 100% O2, I think it is appropriate, considering the associated danger, to have instructor led hands on practical experience to ensure at a minimum the individual being certified is not otherwise a boob that will blow themselves up.

-Z

 

[Blackcrusader]

So other than getting the "card" that may make it easier to get fills........ What is it in the O2 admin course that cannot be 100% clarified and 100% learned in an online or virtual course?

I ask this because as an example....... in the PADI Enriched Air Diver Course, I can see absolutely zero benefit from taking the time and expense of doing the actual dives. As long as you fully understand all of the physics and MOD limits...... then the dives are really nothing more than paying PADI to follow the specified parameters, limits. etc.... and then normally inhale and exhale and repeat as necessary.

Different courses and training. I believe you will find it's a requirement to do the dives as part of the certification.
After basic nitrox cert you might want to look at the TDI Advanced Nitrox course it also gives you a 40m deep dive limit as well. That can also be combined into a Decompression course as well.

TDI Advanced Nitrox Diver - International Training - SDI | TDI | ERDI | PFI

www.tdisdi.com

 

[rx7diver]

So other than getting the "card" that may make it easier to get fills........ What is it in the O2 admin course that cannot be 100% clarified and 100% learned in an online or virtual course?

The DAN Advanced Oxygen Provider course I took a number of years ago was taught by a physician. I learned quite a bit. I cannot imagine learning this material in an on-line course.

I am right now attempting to arrange another DAN Oxygen course with a local DAN course director.

rx7diver

 

[NW Dive Dawg]

Different courses and training. I believe you will find it's a requirement to do the dives as part of the certification.
After basic nitrox cert you might want to look at the TDI Advanced Nitrox course it also gives you a 40m deep dive limit as well. That can also be combined into a Decompression course as well.

TDI Advanced Nitrox Diver - International Training - SDI | TDI | ERDI | PFI

www.tdisdi.com

I've always used 111ft as my MOD for 32%..... plus...... I've even added in an additional 10ft of personal safety contingency and basically have stayed inside of 100ft when on 32.. I understand that differing SAC rates can be a factor.....

So am I correct that you are saying that TDI uses 130ft for the MOD on 32? With that amount of discrepancy, it seems that I am better off doing my own research and making my own decisions.

Maybe this issue of Nitrox is better discussed in a separate thread.

My question for this thread is simply.... What exactly is it that that cannot be learned online for the proper administration of emergency O2. Assuming of course that I am fully capable of EXACTLY repeating and fully understanding anything that is discussed or demonstrated to me by video.. Also, how did they conduct Emergency O2 Provider courses during the peak of the pandemic?

The only reason that I brought up the Nitrox course example is that once I had a full academic understanding of the physics, physiology, testing equipment, etc.... associated with Nitrox..... that the dives were completely unnecessary..

 

[tursiops]

So am I correct that you are saying that TDI uses 130ft for the MOD on 32? With that amount of discrepancy, it seems that I am better off doing my own research and making my own decisions.

Depends on the MOD. 32% at 130 ft is 1.6 PPO2. At 111 ft it is 1.4 PPO2. If you don't know what that means, then you need to retake your Nitrox class.

My question for this thread is simply.... What exactly is it that that cannot be learned online for the proper administration of emergency O2. Assuming of course that I am fully capable of EXACTLY repeating and fully understanding anything that is discussed or demonstrated to me by video.. Also, how did they conduct Emergency O2 Provider courses during the peak of the pandemic?

For example, how to safely assemble the pieces of the unit is a hands-on skill, not book learning.
How to observe the patient and react is a hands-on skill.
Do you think you can learn to ride a bicycle, or drive a stick-shift car, or play a trumpet, by reading a book? Some things require hands-on learning and individual feedback as to your performance.

Many instructors/shops did NOT teach O2 provision during the peak of the pandemic.

The only reason that I brought up the Nitrox course example is that once I had a full academic understanding of the physics, physiology, testing equipment, etc.... associated with Nitrox..... that the dives were completely unnecessary..

Yes, the dives are irrelevant for the Nitrox course, which is why most agencies no longer require them. but the O2 analysis is a hands-on skill...and is required. Therefore, using Nitrox as your reason to wish for a no-touch O2 class is missing the point entirely. The Nitrox class, in fact, supports the idea that some things can't be learned by just reading.

 

[Blackcrusader]

I've always used 111ft as my MOD for 32%..... plus...... I've even added in an additional 10ft of personal safety contingency and basically have stayed inside of 100ft when on 32.. I understand that differing SAC rates can be a factor.....

So am I correct that you are saying that TDI uses 130ft for the MOD on 32? With that amount of discrepancy, it seems that I am better off doing my own research and making my own decisions.

As Tursiops wrote you need to know what PPO2 setting you have 1.4 is default however 1.6 can also be used but many dive centers do not recommend divers change their PPO2 from 1.4. If I was to use PPOE 1.6 another nitrox diver on PPOE 1.4 might just decide to follow me and not pay attention to their own MOD. I have had divers from the same dive boat just follow along behind me not paying attention to depth NDL times or air. They weren't my dive buddy they just decided to tag along. Another thing is what setting does your DC use for dives? Do you use a conservative setting or a more liberal setting. That also affects NDL times. SAC rates don't change with using a different gas and if you know yours then great you can gas plan your NDL or Deco dive.

Or you can dive using less than 32% and use 28% nitrox. So doing courses and hands on training is still a good thing not everything can be learned online. However SB does have some very good reading. Also changing from 1.4 to 1.6 is something most recreational vacation divers would not understand thoroughly. Yes they have done the nitrox course but have they reviewed the materials since they did their class? Mostly it's I'm diving nitrox so set DC for 32% and go diving. Hopefully they check the tanks. Last year I was given a nitrox tank and found it was just 21% air. Would have been bad to have set my DC to nitrox 32% and done an air dive and missed a deco obligation. The dive center manager had a go at his staff for not testing the tank after it had been filled. But at least it was before gear was put on the boat.

For TDI AN you can do part of the course online. If you add the Deco course as well the additional training is useful even if you do not plan on doing a lot of deco dives. I'm deco trained but do very few deco dives as most of my diving now is just vacation diving with dive centers and some don't do deco dives. Some do.

TDI course Ability to dive using EAN 21 through 100 percent oxygen provided.​

PPO2 maximum safe value: 1.4, 1.6

I don't ever intend to do deco dives, trimix dives, dives with gas switches, or dives deeper than 130 feet. The interesting local dives are cold water dives most often in roughly 60-100 feet of water, sometimes deeper. When I have the training and experience to do these dives, I anticipate...

scubaboard.com

 

[Duke Dive Medicine]

So other than getting the "card" that may make it easier to get fills........ What is it in the O2 admin course that cannot be 100% clarified and 100% learned in an online or virtual course?

I ask this because as an example....... in the PADI Enriched Air Diver Course, I can see absolutely zero benefit from taking the time and expense of doing the actual dives. As long as you fully understand all of the physics and MOD limits...... then the dives are really nothing more than paying PADI to follow the specified parameters, limits. etc.... and then normally inhale and exhale and repeat as necessary.

Hi @Scubadog ,

I can't speak directly to the thoughts of the people who designed the course, but in general there are three domains of learning: cognitive, affective, and psychomotor. Online courses can address the cognitive, and to a certain extent the affective, domains, but it's much more difficult to address the psychomotor domain. Since emergency O2 administration involves all three, I can understand the rationale of doing it in person so that the instructor can at least see a return demonstration of the skill.

Best regards,
DDM

 

[Hoyden]

I teach a lot of O2 administration for divers. There are physical skills involved in this training. I do not believe that anyone can reliably learn physical skills to any reasonable level of proficiency without repeating the physical skill. It might be possible to do it remotely with a sufficient application of technology and equipment, but it is not, in my professional opinion, possible without this. Mosty of my students do not own a full O2 set-up (we have them available all over our building at work and with our field gear) so there would be no way for them to practice assembly, disassembly, and administration.

As for how we taught it during the pandemic (which is still going on), we used small classes and manikins. The O2 administration part of the course (we teach DFA Pro which includes O2 administration) was the easiest part to adapt to no contact training.

YMMV,

Jackie