Quarry Rangers! Divemasters?

[RJP]

I get the same treatment when I go somewhere new in the world. I find that the more people stress past experience, the more they worry. I see their eyes on me full time (being the new guy) until I hit the water, then I'm the one they aren't worried about. It's just standard CYA.

I have the slightly opposite experience when I dive elsewhere.

The ask the same questions you always hear: When was your last dive? How many dives in last 6-12 months? Where?

When I tell them "My last dive was less than a week ago, I've done more than 100 dives in the last 12months, with vast majority of them being wreck dives off NJ..."

...the response is usually something like "...OK, you're all set then. Back of the boat's over there. Feel free to do your own thing, but please try to leave the other divers alone, ok? We had some NJ divers here recently..."



Honest to god, that's the exact response I've gotten from several dive boat captains in FL, CA, and HI.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Anyway, when it comes to conditions like Ice Diving, Caves and mixed gas; I think that these are highly specialized types of diving and I don't know that they really fit into the scope of what anyone would expect of a DM anywhere outside of the tech diving world.

What is the "tech diving world"?
Around here, Ice diving is something of an anual ritual. Most shops offer ice diving classes and most shops and clubs sponsor ice dives...for the recreational divers who frequent those recreational shops. A DM who can't ice dive is going to be something of a three legged dow around here until they learn. LOL

If there is a line between "rec" and "tech" it gets somewhat blured since the next stop for a midwest quarry diver who is going to dive locally is usually the Great Lakes. At this end of the lakes there are plenty of shallow wrecks but they suck. The better wrecks are deeper and if a diver has any interest, it won't be long before they are thinking about doing some deeper diving and using gasses other than air.

So, I will kind of "add" something else: What I was illuding to, at the begining, was the idea that someone could go from OW to DM and only have been diving in thier local quarry for their entire career. Agian, this is not about individual dive skills its about whether or not one would expect a DM to have (as a prerequisite, maybe?) multiple dive experiences....shore, quarry, boat, FW/SW, night, Deep, wreck.... ya know, the kind of dives one might reasonably expect within the "rec-divers" normal arena. I must admit that I reject the idea of a "specialized DM" meaning a quarry DM or an Ocean DM or...etc.etc, A DM, is a DM, is a DM! I mean, despite what appearances may seem... the quarry guy/gal meets the same standards as the one with all ocean dives..etc

I think you have to seperate skill and academic requirements from experience requirements. Any DM should have the general knowledge and skills necessary to go into a new area and gain the local knowledge/experience needed to work in that environment but he/she doesn't necessarily need that local knowledge to become a DM in the first place.

 

[Goose75]

When I tell them "My last dive was less than a week ago, I've done more than 100 dives in the last 12months, with vast majority of them being wreck dives off NJ..."

...the response is usually something like "...OK, you're all set then. Back of the boat's over there. Feel free to do your own thing, but please try to leave the other divers alone, ok? We had some NJ divers here recently..."



Honest to god, that's the exact response I've gotten from several dive boat captains in FL, CA, and HI.

I've been diving in the Med in the middle east lately. Most of the operators have heard of NJ but would have trouble pointing to it on the map

 

[Oriskany Divemaster]

I haven't read any of the posts, but I'm not going to let that stop me from joining in the conversation. And while I don't have any understanding of the topic, I am, however, qualified to read and write--which is all you have to really do in these forums.

So just as a new DM with no experience in local diving is qualified to take someone diving in unfamiliar territory based on having his DM ticket, I too am qualified to speak on something of which I know nothing about simply because I have a basic understanding of the English language.

But enough with the analogies...

 

[robway034]

I haven't read any of the posts, but I'm not going to let that stop me from joining in the conversation. And while I don't have any understanding of the topic, I am, however, qualified to read and write--which is all you have to really do in these forums.

So just as a new DM with no experience in local diving is qualified to take someone diving in unfamiliar territory based on having his DM ticket, I too am qualified to speak on something of which I know nothing about simply because I have a basic understanding of the English language.

But enough with the analogies...

HAW HAW HAW HAW...... But seriously, I am not sure which way to take this one! It's just a little ambiguous. My first instinct is to think that you'd side on the " A DM should have a variety of dive experiences" or something to that affect but after reading your website I am not all that sure..., Either way....its still a damned funny post!

 

[Oriskany Divemaster]

I guess I violated my own rule about drinking and posting...Sorry about that.

But here's what I was trying to say...

To get a DM ticket, you have to pass tests and demonstrate skills. But being a good DM is much more than that. I've seen DMs go from ow to DM with the minimum dives and I ask myself if I would count on them to save my mask if the ship hit the spam. Or would they be able to make the most of my dive, which would be the only reason i'd hire one.

Whether he/she acquires them pre or post DM ticket doesn't matter. But an intregal part of being a good DM is experience with the local diving.

While I'm an excellent DM in Pensacola, I'd be a marginal one in the Caymans only because I don't know the area very well. Sure I'd be comfortable in leading a group of people and being able to help them be more comfortable in the water, but I wouldn't know what the hell to show 'em since I'm not familiar with the sites. So my value would be extremely limited.

So a good DM should have the diving acumen and the local knowlege. I hire good ones everywhere I travel, because although I'm comfortable with myself in the water, I know that a good DM makes the difference between diving and experiencing a great dive.

 

[rockjock3]

I guess I violated my own rule about drinking and posting...Sorry about that.

But here's what I was trying to say...

To get a DM ticket, you have to pass tests and demonstrate skills. But being a good DM is much more than that. I've seen DMs go from ow to DM with the minimum dives and I ask myself if I would count on them to save my mask if the ship hit the spam. Or would they be able to make the most of my dive, which would be the only reason i'd hire one.

Whether he/she acquires them pre or post DM ticket doesn't matter. But an intregal part of being a good DM is experience with the local diving.

While I'm an excellent DM in Pensacola, I'd be a marginal one in the Caymans only because I don't know the area very well. Sure I'd be comfortable in leading a group of people and being able to help them be more comfortable in the water, but I wouldn't know what the hell to show 'em since I'm not familiar with the sites. So my value would be extremely limited.

So a good DM should have the diving acumen and the local knowlege. I hire good ones everywhere I travel, because although I'm comfortable with myself in the water, I know that a good DM makes the difference between diving and experiencing a great dive.

Agreed. And I don't think anybody said any different. The going notion I see with the posters (might have missed one or two) was that yes a DM should be skilled in their environment, but not necessarily in another environment.

The original poster said that the DM on his boat "WAS NOT" acting as a DM. He was simply on vacation diving.

It was also stated by several that as long as that DM is proficient in the environments that they DM in then great. If they move somewhere else they should not be allowed to immediatly DM there. Yes hire them, but they need some time to work as an surface support, deckhand, etc to get the experience in the local environment before they are allowed to DM on their own.

 

[Oriskany Divemaster]

Agreed. And I don't think anybody said any different. The going notion I see with the posters (might have missed one or two) was that yes a DM should be skilled in their environment, but not necessarily in another environment.

The original poster said that the DM on his boat "WAS NOT" acting as a DM. He was simply on vacation diving.

It was also stated by several that as long as that DM is proficient in the environments that they DM in then great. If they move somewhere else they should not be allowed to immediatly DM there. Yes hire them, but they need some time to work as an surface support, deckhand, etc to get the experience in the local environment before they are allowed to DM on their own.

We'll, then I'll stand by my first post.

I haven't read any of the posts, but I'm not going to let that stop me from joining in the conversation. And while I don't have any understanding of the topic, I am, however, qualified to read and write--

However,

but they need some time to work as an surface support, deckhand, etc to get the experience in the local environment before they are allowed to DM on their own.

I don't care how many years a deckhand or support surface person has. What I care about is how well he or she knows his or her sites. And you don't learn sites by serving as a deckhand. You learn your sites by diving them. A good DM must have experience DIVING the sites, not tethered over them on a Newton.

 

[robway034]

Hey does anyone else like that "kiss rebreather add" model or is it just me? YOWZZA!!! I am sure that, at a minimum she's a DM (<---added so that no one can complain about being off topic....LOL---->) with experience diving CCR and OC in multiple scenarios and environments.....

 

[rockjock3]

We'll, then I'll stand by my first post.



However,



I don't care how many years a deckhand or support surface person has. What I care about is how well he or she knows his or her sites. And you don't learn sites by serving as a deckhand. You learn your sites by diving them. A good DM must have experience DIVING the sites, not tethered over them on a Newton.

I never said or inferred that is all they should do. I stated they should not be doing the duties of the primary DM until they are familiar with the areas. And you can learn a lot from the surface (no, not nearly everything you need to learn about an area to be an effective and safe DM, but a lot). You can learn a lot from talking and working with the people that have been there a while as well. By working on the boat you will learn a lot that you can add to the time and experience in the water learning the sites and undewater conditions. I was also trying to say that you shouldn't just simply not hire them, but just not as a DM set to lead dives from the get go. They can be used in other capacities (if they are willing) until they are familar with the sites and condtions. If they are not willing, then oh well, they can keep walking.