Recommendation for recreational pony bottle size

[ams511]

Not sure what you are asking. I never have any octo other than the one on my pony. As far as hose length, you missed the point. The fact that the hose is attached to me makes any hose too short. I can unclip the pony and hand it off and be free of the encumberment. Safer for both divers.

What makes you think it is safer? The fact that no agency recommends the "hand off" method should probably tell you that it is not. Remember if the diver is out of air his power inflator isn't working either. The reg on the pony could have sand in it and may freeflow or breath wet.

 

[Colliam7]

Travel is the tall pole in the tent, depending on where you live. Packing a big bottle is pretty difficult and expensive if flying. Renting any pony at travel destinations also a long shot, so you sling something oversize. Even this tends to be discouraged on many boats unless the are technically oriented.

And, I can see a personal preference for a smaller bottle for air travel. With regard to my recommendations for the OP, I understood he was looking for a bottle to use for 'recreational diving here in So. Cal.', not for travel, at least those were his comments. As for the travel issue, I haven't encountered a problem in the Caribbean, but I also check ahead to see what is available, and what is allowed. I am used to slinging bottles of various sizes, up to an AL80, and don't mind renting one. It is just my personal preference not to add the weight and bulk of an AL13 to my gear bag when traveling. I guess, if I ever planned a trip to a destination where I could not use a second AL80 as a pony, I might consider flying with a small cylinder like a 13.

---------- Post added February 18th, 2014 at 09:25 AM ----------

Not sure what you are asking. I never have any octo other than the one on my pony. As far as hose length, you missed the point. The fact that the hose is attached to me makes any hose too short. I can unclip the pony and hand it off and be free of the encumberment. Safer for both divers.

OK, I see what you are saying now. I misunderstood your emphasis on your primary when diving with others. I wrongly presumed you were implying that you used a second octo on your back gas reg when diving with others, and were bothered by donating the primary second stage, which is usually on a shorter hose, rather than the octo, on the slightly longer hose. The clarification is helpful - you hand off the second stage on your pony, and the pony itself, and continue to breath from your back gas and primary second stage.

Again, I don't see your point.

My point was, as I said, it is a matter of personal preference. I prefer to have a second octo on my backgas. And, I prefer not to hand off a cylinder in the unlikely event that another diver has an OOA situation. And, I prefer to pressurize my pony, but leave the valve closed. That is probably habit as much as logic, I can argue either way - leave it on, or turn it off. In a catastrophic gas failure, I will have time to turn the valve on. I see nothing wrong with your approach, I just prefer an alternative.

 

[Kharon]

What makes you think it is safer? The fact that no agency recommends the "hand off" method should probably tell you that it is not. Remember if the diver is out of air his power inflator isn't working either. The reg on the pony could have sand in it and may freeflow or breath wet.

First, it is safer because neither diver is handcuffed to the other, so if either diver panics it doesn't affect the other. Second, it is easer to ascend properly when each diver is free and not tethered by a short length of hose. It's too easy for the octo to be pulled from the OOA divers mouth if both divers aren't very coordinated in their swimming.

Third - where do you get the "no agency recommends" crap. Instead of blowing smoke out your butt why don't you quote the manual (title & page) of any agencies course where it is recommended against. Of course you can't because none does. The SDI Solo Divers Course notes that a slung bottle may be the best configuration because of accessability and ease of removal.

Fourth, so his power inflator isn't working. You were never taught to orally inflate? If not then you shouldn't have been certified. Anyway, if his power isn't working with the pony it won't be working with the octo either.

Fifth, MY reg will not have sand or anything else in it. The "SkumBall" holder protects the mouthpiece completely. Moreover, why would an octo attached to the back gas be any better?

It's obvious you just want to blow smoke rather than think & discuss. Added to the ignore list.

 

[doctormike]

First, it is safer because neither diver is handcuffed to the other, so if either diver panics it doesn't affect the other. Second, it is easer to ascend properly when each diver is free and not tethered by a short length of hose. It's too easy for the octo to be pulled from the OOA divers mouth if both divers aren't very coordinated in their swimming.

I think that they were just pointing out that in rescue training, they make the point that you do need to stay in touch contact with the OOG victim that you are rescuing. The long hose is an accommodation to prevent that tight tether that you are correctly mentioning. So just handing off a bottle to someone who is already OOG and panicked might not be all that they need.

Third - where do you get the "no agency recommends" crap. Instead of blowing smoke out your butt why don't you quote the manual (title & page) of any agencies course where it is recommended against. Of course you can't because none does.

Lots of anger. Not sure why?

The SDI Solo Divers Course notes that a slung bottle may be the best configuration because of accessability and ease of removal.

Yes, I took that course and I agree. But that's for solo diving, not for rescue of an OOG diver.

It's obvious you just want to blow smoke rather than think & discuss. Added to the ignore list.

Am I on the list now too?

 

[flots am]

First, it is safer because neither diver is handcuffed to the other, so if either diver panics it doesn't affect the other.

The rescuer shouldn't be panicking because he's properly trained, practices frequently and knows what he's doing.

Second, it is easer to ascend properly when each diver is free and not tethered by a short length of hose.

The standard length hose is just fine for a properly performed OW ascent. The long hose is more useful inside restrictions. In any case, once you're actually ascending, you don't need a hose that reaches any farther than you can.

It's too easy for the octo to be pulled from the OOA divers mouth if both divers aren't very coordinated in their swimming.

That's what training is for.

If you perform the ascent properly, you'll have a good grip on the OOA diver and nobody will be pulling anything.

Third - where do you get the "no agency recommends" crap. Instead of blowing smoke out your butt why don't you quote the manual (title & page) of any agencies course where it is recommended against.

There is no page that lists non-recommended procedures because there are an infinite number of bad ideas.

Not only is there no page that says "Don't hand an OOA diver your pony bottle", there is also no page that says "Don't stab them with an ice pick before ascending"

There are however, explicitly defined procedures for handling an OOA diver and these are extremely well documented in any major agency's OW class material.

Handing off your pony just gives the OOA diver a second chance to run out of air, and an opportunity to drown on the surface.

flots.

 

[scubadada]

Pony choice and use are frequently discussed on SB

I dive with a 19 cu ft slung pony. Why 19 cu ft? Though I usually dive shollower than 130 ft, I want a pony to cover recreational limits. For me, a minute at 130 feet, ascent to 15 ft at 30 ft per minute, a 3 minute safety stop, and ascent to the surface, at twice my average SRMV, takes just over 17 cu ft of gas. Of course, if push came to shove, I could accelerate some or all of the ascent and/or skip some or all of the safety stop. At the extreme, a relatively rapid ascent at 60 ft per minute from 130 ft to the surface at twice my average SRMV, would take me a little under 5 cu ft of gas. Sure beats a CESA

I occasionally travel with my pony, this is doable in checked or carry-on luggage as long as the valve is removed. A 30 cu ft cylinder is only about an inch longer but is also greater in diameter and is about twice as heavy. I would imagine this is still possible.

I dive with my pony on rather than just charged. The valve, regulator, and SPG are right in front of me, any gas loss would be immediately obvious.

Choice of redundant air supply is personal one, I'm comfortable with mine. I understand how my fellow divers may make a different choice, dependent upon their own circumstances.