Replacing Halcyon

[ChrisM]

OK, I'm sick of the mystery pinhole leaks occuring in my Halcyon Pioneer. It's lasted me a few hundred dives, but time to move on.

Strictly a single tank, recreational photographer. tobin, what's the difference between the two single rec wings (other than shape)? I lean towards to Torus (I think that's the tapered one) becuase it easily replaces my 36#. The other one (name escapes me) is either 30 or 40, thinking I'd have to go to 40#. Dive California dry + steel (wet off the beach), plus other warm water destinations.

Thanks

Chris

 

[cool_hardware52]

OK, I'm sick of the mystery pinhole leaks occuring in my Halcyon Pioneer. It's lasted me a few hundred dives, but time to move on.

Strictly a single tank, recreational photographer. tobin, what's the difference between the two single rec wings (other than shape)? I lean towards to Torus (I think that's the tapered one) becuase it easily replaces my 36#. The other one (name escapes me) is either 30 or 40, thinking I'd have to go to 40#. Dive California dry + steel (wet off the beach), plus other warm water destinations.

Thanks

Chris

Chris,

Our "horseshoe" wings are the LCD series, and the full circle wings are the Torus series.

We make a 20, 30, and 40 in the LCD, and a 17, 26, and 35 in the Torus.

There is not a great deal of performance difference between the two styles.

In your Dry Suit with a specific steel tank how much ballast do you use?

I'm assuming you have a SS plate + and maybe a STA?

If I know what tank you ae using, and how much total ballast I can size a wing for you. There's a good chance that you don't need a 35 or 36 lbs wing.

Tobin

 

[ChrisM]

Tobin - Dry with a steel 80 I use 8 -10 # (depending on if I have my 13 cu ft pony), SS backplate and FredT STA. Wet (old compessed 7 mil) I use 4#. Both on a belt.

 

[cool_hardware52]

Tobin - Dry with a steel 80 I use 8 -10 # (depending on if I have my 13 cu ft pony), SS backplate and FredT STA. Wet (old compessed 7 mil) I use 4#. Both on a belt.

Chris,

Without knowing the exact tank you are using, I'll assume it's not a faber HP80. Those are very negative. The other popular steel 80's are all about -1 to -3 empty.

I'll also assume your plate and STA are about -8 with harness.

If my assumptions are correct your rig will be a maximum of about -19 with a full bottle and about -13 with an empty tank.

If you use 10 lbs in a belt, and your rig is -13 with an empty tank, then we ccan assume your suit is about 23 lbs positive. That's with in reason for a Drysuit in the local conditions.

With a suit that is 23 lbs positive, and a rig that is at most -19 you could easily use a 26 or 30 lbs wing.

If your gear varies much from my assumptions let me know.

Tobin

 

[ChrisM]

Yes, it's a PST LP 80, I always credited it about a 6# swing from AL.

Plate is 6 neg, STA 2 neg.

My bigger concern is floating at the surface, I know I don't need 30+ for buoyancy. My 36 floats me just about right, could probably go a little less. (I'm going on a Galapagos trip and, having been once, surface flotation is a big deal there )

So the question is horseshoe or donut. What are pros/cons? My pioneer is a donut, I use the rear dump 90% of the time, I like the fact that I can dump trapped air in the bottom from either side. How is that handled with a horeshoe?

 

[cool_hardware52]

Yes, it's a PST LP 80, I always credited it about a 6# swing from AL.

Plate is 6 neg, STA 2 neg.

My bigger concern is floating at the surface, I know I don't need 30+ for buoyancy. My 36 floats me just about right, could probably go a little less. (I'm going on a Galapagos trip and, having been once, surface flotation is a big deal there )

So the question is horseshoe or donut. What are pros/cons? My pioneer is a donut, I use the rear dump 90% of the time, I like the fact that I can dump trapped air in the bottom from either side. How is that handled with a horeshoe?

Chris,

Your tank is a little less negative than I assumed, around -1 empty. I assumed -3.

I did use about 8 lbs for your plate and STA.

Even if you start the dive negative by the weigh of your gas (~-6 lbs) you will have most of the rest of the capacity of the wing to get comfortable at the surface.

In a 26 lbs wing that leaves 20 lbs unused.

With a Drysuit that is 22 lbs positive at the surface you could likely start even less negative to almost neutral and still be able to hold your shallow stop. This assumes your suit will shrink wrap a bit at 15 ft and be less buoyant that it was at the surface.

Horseshoe vs donut? Not really a big deal. Unless you are distinctly heads down, there seldom is any gas in the lower arc of a donut wing.

When do you typically vent your wing? During ascents. When do you vent your Drysuit? During ascents. Venting your Drysuit will require a slight shoulder high position, this will also cause either a LCD wing or Torus wing to equalize through the top arc.

Regards,

Tobin

 

[ChrisM]

SO, between the Torus 26 and LCD 30, which do you recommend, or is it a tossup?

Thanks

 

[cool_hardware52]

SO, between the Torus 26 and LCD 30, which do you recommend, or is it a tossup?

Thanks

Sort of a tossup. The 30 will give you a little more margin if you change tank type, or add more undies to your DS.

Tobin

 

[ChrisM]

So, I have decided on the Torus. Now, 26 or 35? I will likely change drysuit undergarments at some point (now diving DUI brand that came with suit, ideally go to a weezle), and there are times when I use a Steel 95, for example on a Truth liveaboard I usually rent one of their tanks.

26 to 35 is a big swing. Since I currently use the Pioneer 36 (or is it 35?), it shouldn't be too big of a deal to go Torus 35? I am usually the one saying you don't need excessive lift, but given the varied diving I do, the 35 doesn't strike me as overkill... or is it?

The one design aspect I like of the Pioneer is the gussets, allowing the wing to wrap around the tank. How does the Torus 35 lay when deflated?

Thanks for all the assistance Tobin

 

[cool_hardware52]

So, I have decided on the Torus. Now, 26 or 35? I will likely change drysuit undergarments at some point (now diving DUI brand that came with suit, ideally go to a weezle), and there are times when I use a Steel 95, for example on a Truth liveaboard I usually rent one of their tanks.

26 to 35 is a big swing. Since I currently use the Pioneer 36 (or is it 35?), it shouldn't be too big of a deal to go Torus 35? I am usually the one saying you don't need excessive lift, but given the varied diving I do, the 35 doesn't strike me as overkill... or is it?

The one design aspect I like of the Pioneer is the gussets, allowing the wing to wrap around the tank. How does the Torus 35 lay when deflated?

Thanks for all the assistance Tobin

The Torus 35 is really more than you need. The 26 should work fine.

All wings will wrap the tank. Our wings, because of the narrow center panel design, will end up with less total wrap. When deflated they are reasonably flat, but no wing with a inner bladder and sewn outer shell will be as flat as a single layer wing.

Tobin