Retailers selling what turns out to be 'new old stock' hoses, how old is 'too old' ?

[scubafanatic]

I've noticed vendors selling new old stock hoses that are up to several years old, they appear new/mint condition, but the date of manufacture stamp shows a few years old, does anyone see this as a problem ? And if it is a problem, how does one make sure one receives current/recent manufacture hoses ? Just wondering if others had seen this issue and how does one feel about it ?

 

[northernone]

For standard rubber hoses I stick to industrial standard service life (couple decades with inspection). For miflex (which I don't dive) I understand it's suggested 5 years.

Shelf life for properly stored unused hoses doesn't concern me as it's likely measured in decades.

New old stock is true of every item the minute it hits the shelf. If the product shelf life is short, that's significant. I don't believe that to be the case with standard hoses.

Cameron

 

[scubafanatic]

For standard rubber hoses I stick to industrial standard service life (couple decades with inspection). For miflex (which I don't dive) I understand it's suggested 5 years.

Shelf life for properly stored unused hoses doesn't concern me.

Cameron

DiveGearExpress says:

"Dive Gear Express suggests replacing all SCUBA regulator hoses every five years or 500 dives, whichever comes first. Keep in mind that all hoses will fail sooner or later either due to age, storage conditions or handling. Scuba hoses, regardless of brand and materials, require some minimal care. Do not allow hoses to receive prolonged exposure sunlight, as the heat and UV from strong sunlight will significantly shorten the life of the hose. Do not attempt to flush the inside of the hose with any form of solvent or other chemical, new hoses are factory clean and if you have any reason to think they are no longer clean then the hose should be replaced. Prior to every dive trip you should always pressurize and inspect your hoses for mechanical damage, corroded fittings, bulges and leaks."

With respect to MIFLEX, there's 'real' Miflex and 'fake' Miflex, they each use a poly-something inner lining, but the MIFLEX ones supposedly use 'poly-something-good' which remains stable/no crystalization issues, whereas the 'fake' Miflex use a 'poly-something-bad' which DOES decay internally with respect to UV/tropical heat exposure. My take away is the 'real' Miflex appears to have a lifetime at least equal to standard rubber hose, if not longer.

But if DGE is correct, 5 years isn't very long, given I've been sold 'new' hoses manufactured 4 years ago, so by that standard they're essentially already expired.

 

[herman]

Change every 5 years or 500 dives? I need to go into the hose business. IMO, as long as the hose is in good shape- no major cuts, soft and flexible with no signs of leaking or damage, it's good t go. For standard hoses that are taken care of, this can be 20 or more years, I have some that are going on 35. Its rare a hose "just blows out", rather is starts to show signs of wear and usually starts leaking way before it sustains a major failure. My guess is, most of the "it just failed" failures are due to unobserved damage that happened just before the dive, the kit being picked up by the hoses for example. Now, whether or not the diver is observant of the impending failure is another matter.

 

[Wookie]

Change every 5 years or 500 dives? I need to go into the hose business. IMO, as long as the hose is in good shape- no major cuts, soft and flexible with no signs of leaking or damage, it's good t go. For standard hoses that are taken care of, this can be 20 or more years, I have some that are going on 35. Its rare a hose "just blows out", rather is starts to show signs of wear and usually starts leaking way before it sustains a major failure. My guess is, most of the "it just failed" failures are due to unobserved damage that happened just before the dive, the kit being picked up by the hoses for example. Now, whether or not the diver is observant of the impending failure is another matter.

Hoses often (especially buna hoses used in oxygen rich environments) rot from the inside out. That's why the outer sheath have small holes, to let you know they are letting go.

 

[divad]

Hoses often (especially buna hoses used in oxygen rich environments) rot from the inside. That's why the outer sheath have small holes, to let you know they are letting go.

I've only had a Halcyon hose do that. I hope the others are "Right".

 

[kelemvor]

DiveGearExpress says:

"Dive Gear Express suggests replacing all SCUBA regulator hoses every five years or 500 dives, whichever comes first. Keep in mind that all hoses will fail sooner or later either due to age, storage conditions or handling. Scuba hoses, regardless of brand and materials, require some minimal care. Do not allow hoses to receive prolonged exposure sunlight, as the heat and UV from strong sunlight will significantly shorten the life of the hose. Do not attempt to flush the inside of the hose with any form of solvent or other chemical, new hoses are factory clean and if you have any reason to think they are no longer clean then the hose should be replaced. Prior to every dive trip you should always pressurize and inspect your hoses for mechanical damage, corroded fittings, bulges and leaks."

With respect to MIFLEX, there's 'real' Miflex and 'fake' Miflex, they each use a poly-something inner lining, but the MIFLEX ones supposedly use 'poly-something-good' which remains stable/no crystalization issues, whereas the 'fake' Miflex use a 'poly-something-bad' which DOES decay internally with respect to UV/tropical heat exposure. My take away is the 'real' Miflex appears to have a lifetime at least equal to standard rubber hose, if not longer.

But if DGE is correct, 5 years isn't very long, given I've been sold 'new' hoses manufactured 4 years ago, so by that standard they're essentially already expired.

I think DGE has engaged in misinformation of the first magnitude. When you buy a miflex hose, it comes with a small instruction manual that specifically says it should be replaced at 5 years.

and yeah.. I know.. an instruction manual for a hose.. lol

 

[2airishuman]

Well, I got in a big fight over this about a year ago, still don't feel too good about it.

My take on the situation is that there is very little that people will all agree upon:

1. Hoses fail over time and with use and exposure to heat and oxygen
   
2. Rubber hoses last the longest
3. Miflex hoses have a shorter life which the manufacturer quotes as five years
4. Some cheap copies of Miflex hoses have failed much sooner than five years
5. An LP hose failure at depth is a very serious matter

As far as I can determine, all the rubber SCUBA hoses sold in the USA in the last few years come from the same manufacturer. There is a date stamp either on the crimp, or printed on the hose, or both.

It is generally not possible to determine the condition of a hose through inspection, because the jacket is made of a different material than the braid and the core, and is exposed to different conditions, and has a different service life.

I believe vendors should be selling stock that is less than a year old, maybe two years for odd sizes or configurations. I don't think it's a bad idea to replace hoses on the grounds of age at 5 years.

 

[kelemvor]

Well, I got in a big fight over this about a year ago, still don't feel too good about it.

My take on the situation is that there is very little that people will all agree upon:

1. Hoses fail over time and with use and exposure to heat and oxygen
   
2. Rubber hoses last the longest
3. Miflex hoses have a shorter life which the manufacturer quotes as five years
4. Some cheap copies of Miflex hoses have failed much sooner than five years
5. An LP hose failure at depth is a very serious matter

As far as I can determine, all the rubber SCUBA hoses sold in the USA in the last few years come from the same manufacturer. There is a date stamp either on the crimp, or printed on the hose, or both.

It is generally not possible to determine the condition of a hose through inspection, because the jacket is made of a different material than the braid and the core, and is exposed to different conditions, and has a different service life.

I believe vendors should be selling stock that is less than a year old, maybe two years for odd sizes or configurations. I don't think it's a bad idea to replace hoses on the grounds of age at 5 years.

Fortunately, the failure mode of miflex hoses generally isn't explosive release of the gas. Some of the crystals come loose and will clog a second stage. That SHOULD leave you with the ability to switch to a secondary/octo.

 

[kelemvor]

I've only had a Halcyon hose do that. I hope the others are "Right".

The rubber hoses on my mk7 honker were bubbling like that when I first got it. Pretty sure those hoses predate the creation of Halceon.