"Riding your Computer Up" vs. "Lite Deco"

[boulderjohn]

But what I thought that I was hearing was that there is only one NDL, the one imposed by the agency that taught you. @DevonDiver pointed out that picking and choosing DC's for longer bottom time effectively breaks your training.

If a diver's OW training was based on a particular agency's choice of tables and the student then goes out and buys a computer based on a different algorithm, then it is a slight difference in NDL, but really how much is that slight difference in comparison too the HUGE difference between being taught to dive with tables and then diving with a computer?

It has been years since I have taught an OW class using tables. The computer version of the class does not teach a specific NDL at all. It teaches the concept of NDLs and tells students how to manage their dive using a generic computer. It tells the students to use whatever system their individual computer uses, including NDL and ascent rates. It teaches the key functions of a computer, including dive planning and dealing with violations of NDLs, and tells students to learn how their specific computer handles them. Thus, any use of any computer will be within their training.

 

[Edward3c]

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This is the part that I love about the BSAC presentation. There are no RNT calculations necessary and far fewer tissue codes. I find subsequent dive planning to be far more obvious when using the rather large collection of level and tissue loading tables. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but it looks to me like there are absolutely no calculations needed with the BSAC 88 approach.
...

Correct, for dive time planning.

 

[scubadada]

In more than 400 replies, this thread has meandered far from @lowviz question regarding the parameters of light deco for recreational divers.

My primary computer has run DSAT for about the last 1200 dives, I use it to dictate my NDLs and to give me my short deco obligations. Back in post 25, I wrote: "I do light deco on about 5% of my dives. My average deco time is about 5 minutes, the range is 2-14 minutes. I generally extend the last stop several minutes, 3-5." I draw my own personal line at 15 minutes, generally, it is much shorter.

All the additional discussion regarding various tables and computer algorithms, has been very interesting, as has the discussion regarding redundant air supply for light deco. Personally, this thread has prompted me to expand my knowledge, always a good thing

Happy New Year and good diving to all, regardless of your personal practices. Be safe

 

[lowviz]

In more than 400 replies, this thread has meandered far from @lowviz question regarding the parameters of light deco for recreational divers. ...

Sometimes it is fun to drop the reins and see where you end up...

... All the additional discussion regarding various tables and computer algorithms, has been very interesting, as has the discussion regarding redundant air supply for light deco. Personally, this thread has prompted me to expand my knowledge, always a good thing

Indeed. Treat yourself to one of these: Decompression Tables - British Sub-Aqua Club

... Happy New Year and good diving to all, regardless of your personal practices. Be safe

Same to you and yours!

 

[stuartv]

picking and choosing DC's for longer bottom time effectively breaks your training.

That is 100% false. At least, for the SDI training I had. But, I think it's also false for PADI, SSI, and other typical US agencies, too.

My training did not train me to pick a computer for longer bottom time, but neither did it train me to not do that. It simply trained me to use a computer and left the choice of computer completely up to me.

 

[lowviz]

That is 100% false. ...//...

Yes, today it is. Boulderjohn pointed that out. Back when I was taught "tables only", I was to follow the tables to the letter.

The new way is better.

 

[lowviz]

...//... It has been years since I have taught an OW class using tables. The computer version of the class does not teach a specific NDL at all. ...//...

It took a while for this to sink in.

So the dreaded "DO NOT CROSS THIS LINE" is now officially up to the student? Of course there is an NDL, there has to be. With today's training, I get to pick? Let's think about this, am I in dreaded deco or aren't I? Seems to be my choice...

I have become enamored with the BSAC approach to OW diving. Those guys/gals are cool with altitude and reasonable amounts of deco. In some ways restrictive, in some ways aggressive. But always clearly defined.

 

[boulderjohn]

So the dreaded "DO NOT CROSS THIS LINE" is now officially up to the student? Of course there is an NDL, there has to be. With today's training, I get to pick? Ley's think about this, am I in dreaded deco or aren't I? Seems to be my choice...

Hasn't it become clear that different algorithms have different NDLs? When PADI created the RDP, its NDLs were different from the old U.S. Navy NDLs. PADI taught the PADI RDP, so it taught the PADI RDP NDLs. PADI does not make or market a computer, so it has no idea in its computer-based course what computer and what NDL the students will use, even in the class itself. Consequently, it can't specify NDLs. The NDLs are determined by the computer's algorithm and are only up to the student to the degree the choice of the computer is up to the student.

 

[lowviz]

Hasn't it become clear that different algorithms have different NDLs? ...//... The NDLs are determined by the computer's algorithm and are only up to the student to the degree the choice of the computer is up to the student.

Yes, it is now is crystal clear to me.

The US agencies have off-loaded liability to the DC manufacturers. So how is a newbie to pick the correct DC/algorithm?

 

[boulderjohn]

Yes, it is now is crystal clear to me.

The US agencies have off-loaded liability to the DC manufacturers. So how is a newbie to pick the correct DC/algorithm?

Explain how hey could do it differently.