Sailboat Runs over DiveFlags at BHB

[danvolker]

Was the captain of the sailboat ticketed?

No. At the time, it seems the officers did not see an infraction.

 

[Chugwhump]

The law will not be changed anytime soon.
I really think that there are very few boat drivers (this place is very short on "Captains") who are truly indifferent to divers.
Most folks with boats would not consider hitting someone a good way to enjoy their outing.
I forsee divers getting chased out of the BHB area if this situation escalates to an injury or a confrontation of a serious nature.
I think that would be knida' sad.
I accept that when I go there, I need to do certain things to avoid injury to myself and ruining a boat drivers day.

Chug
Ate Homasassa Bay Scallops for dinner.

 

[Hetland]

Most states allow their citizens to swear out a complaint and have a warrant issued.

IF someone saw the boat operator and can identify them, they need to ask law enforcement to take an incident/offense report, and request a copy, which should then be taken to a district court magistrate. The magistrate will review the I/O Report, and let the complainant swear out a complaint and warrant if they agree an offense has been committed. The person doing this should be prepared to go the distance, as they'll have to go to court, and may be cross-examined.

Here's the problem:

Any person operating a vessel on a river, inlet, or navigation channel must make a reasonable effort to maintain a distance of at least 100 feet from any divers-down flag.

He can claim he didn't see the flag until he had committed to his course.

Any vessel other than a law enforcement or rescue vessel that approaches within 100 feet of a divers-down flag on a river, inlet, or navigation channel, or within 300 feet of a divers-down flag on waters other than a river, inlet, or navigation channel, must proceed no faster than is necessary to maintain headway and steerageway.

Except as provided in s. 327.33, any violation of this section shall be a noncriminal infraction punishable as provided in s. 327.73.

Once the sailboat committed to traveling through that section of the bridge (which looks like it's technically outside the channel, but not marked as being off limits to navigation) he only had the one choice. He couldn't stop, or turn around... well. he could have stopped, but then he would have almost definitely hit the bridge, and would have had little or no control without his motor.... Anyone can argue that his speed was at or near the minimum required for maintaining headway and steerageway.

I think this is a bad choice for a cheer-leading campaign. It LOOKS bad, but it's a long stretch to say it was knowingly reckless, or a violation of the letter of the law

... and this comes from a guy (me) that has been screaming at and threatening ignorant boaters about dive flag violations all Summer.

 

[farsidefan1]

Help me out here. In most places the sailboat has the right of way over a powered vessel but if the power boat is "parked" the sailboat must "give way". Is that not the case here? Couldn't the power boat park between the sailboat it sees coming, turn off the power so he has (the power boat) the right of position?

 

[cruiser]

The problem is that unless the divers are at or very near the surface, there is no life to be saved. The use of such force when no one is actually in danger is unlikely to produce a good outcome for the dive boat. I don't see where maneuvering in a manner that may cause a collision is intelligent behavior when no one is endangered. Put divers on the surface and the situation may be different.

The captain should always maneuver the boat as if divers are in danger, because he really doesn't know how close to the surface the divers are. F'rinstance, a dive may have just started but a couple divers abort and head for the surface. The captain won't know that until they're visible to him. Same situation mid-dive, some divers may be returning to the boat early and the captain won't know it until they break the surface.

 

[danvolker]

The law will not be changed anytime soon.
I really think that there are very few boat drivers (this place is very short on "Captains") who are truly indifferent to divers.
Most folks with boats would not consider hitting someone a good way to enjoy their outing.
I forsee divers getting chased out of the BHB area if this situation escalates to an injury or a confrontation of a serious nature.
I think that would be knida' sad.
I accept that when I go there, I need to do certain things to avoid injury to myself and ruining a boat drivers day.

Chug
Ate Homasassa Bay Scallops for dinner.

Chug, I agree with you it is dangerous for us to push the BHB issue any more....the Economy of the Intracoastal Waterway is huge, and this level of "known" taxation, revenue, and volume of money spent by boaters along it's length will make it a higher order of importance to government than a small area for divers --with as yet an "undefined revenue potential".

What I would prefer to do is to move this discussion to diving in general, on the opffshore reefs, where the diver down flags are becoming a bad joke.

On one hand, a sherrif boat will look for a diver to ticket, if not close to a diver down flag....but almost everyday there are boats that come in much too close and fast next to diver down flags, and the Law enfrocement officers are not recognizing this as actionable by them....
And when the LEO's tell us that the dive charter boat will be ticketed IF they run their boat between the dive flags and a fast approaching boat ignoring the dive flags....this is the big issue we all need to deal with....

Our dive boats have a RIGHT to interceed, and to protect the lives of divers in the water. This is a DUTY, and

it over-rides any duty to avoid property damage

if a boat to boat collision was to occur ( however unliklely--this is more about the dive boat making a course change that led to a dangerous intersect course-- to protect the divers) ...As of now, the LEO's are being forced by present layers of the legal system, to ignore the safety of the divers, and to consider only the action of the dive boat relative to the oncoming boat, as if the divers in the water DID NOT EXIST. This is so wrong, and NOTHING is being done about this, at all.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This is the real issue, and the Sailboat issue at the BHB is only a distraction now from the real issue. Divers do NOT have legal rights, as of now.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

They are not going to re-write maritime law to accomodate a few dive boats in palm beach. There are very few actions a dive boat operator can do to protect divers, and often they only have 20-45 seconds to initiate a response due to the speed of other vessels and the relatively high traffic volume.

This is not an exaggeration, my buddy recently installed a full size pneumatic TRAIN HORN on his small boat. It runs off a scuba tank, with the intent of getting other boat operators attention and to alert them as he signals and tries to position his vessel on an intercept course.

Typically a capt. can call on the radio, but hand held air horns are too little, too late when the other vessel is moving fast and the wind is blowing in their ears.

Hailing the vessel on Channel 16 can also be done simultaneously, but chances are, an irrespeonsible operator will not be monitiring 16 anyway.

Other than a train horn; the only practical response is to attempt to position the dive boat in a location that will serve to protect the divers. If/when this causes an accident, then I guess we will have to let the chips fall where they may, but we can not expect that boats displaying a dive flag will be given the right of way in all navigational situations...It just doesn't make sense.

I would love to see local enforcement do more to enforce the existing dive flag laws.

 

[danvolker]

They are not going to re-write maritime law to accomodate a few dive boats in palm beach.

DD, I think this view is a bit too parochial. The dive flag issue is just as important in Fort Lauderdale, Miami, the Keys, and even the poor souls forced to dive off of Tampa ....

There are very few actions a dive boat operator can do to protect divers, and often they only have 20-45 seconds to initiate a response due to the speed of other vessels and the relatively high traffic volume.

This is not an exaggeration, my buddy recently installed a full size pneumatic TRAIN HORN on his small boat. It runs off a scuba tank, with the intent of getting other boat operators attention and to alert them as he signals and tries to position his vessel on an intercept course.

Typically a capt. can call on the radio, but hand held air horns are too little, too late when the other vessel is moving fast and the wind is blowing in their ears.

Hailing the vessel on Channel 16 can also be done simultaneously, but chances are, an irrespeonsible operator will not be monitiring 16 anyway.

Other than a train horn; the only practical response is to attempt to position the dive boat in a location that will serve to protect the divers. If/when this causes an accident, then I guess we will have to let the chips fall where they may, but we can not expect that boats displaying a dive flag will be given the right of way in all navigational situations...It just doesn't make sense.

I would love to see local enforcement do more to enforce the existing dive flag laws.

And here I am in total agreement with you ( the Horor!)
I would love to see the reefs "patrolled" by the Marine patrol, sherriffs, FWC and Coast Guard, with an effort to first "Aquaint", and then "ENFORCE" the safe distance from dive flags rule....But as of now, I think more law has to be written on this...I would prefer to see this as federal, so that the Coast Guard would be the higher authority...And Dive Boats are commercial vessels, directly under CG authority anyway.

 

[redacted]

You never know if the diver is in the process of surfacing or not.

How would you like to stick your head out of the water just in time to get it smacked by the hull of a boat?

I have had to steer my boat and my buddies boat in front of other boats on several occasions to get an approaching boat to change course, and I will continue to do so whenever it is necessary.

The captain should always maneuver the boat as if divers are in danger, because he really doesn't know how close to the surface the divers are. F'rinstance, a dive may have just started but a couple divers abort and head for the surface. The captain won't know that until they're visible to him. Same situation mid-dive, some divers may be returning to the boat early and the captain won't know it until they break the surface.

When you cause an accident, the problem is yours, not mine. I can see that your intentions are good, but your problem is how the judge will see it. A dive flag is a marker, not a fence. I just don't see "he may have put a diver in danger" as a good defense for why one boat intentionally maneuvered in a manner that lead to a collision and its associated loss of property and life.

 

[Wookie]

I place my vessel in the path of oncoming vessels all the time. We rarely dive "live boat", but when we do, the dives are guided with the guide carrying the flag for the group. I had a group in the Marquesas a couple of years ago when a DHS go-fast aimed decided to see what I was. I positioned the Spree between the go-fast and the dive flags so that the go-fast would have to avoid me and avoid the dive flags at the same time.

I'm not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV, but the rules of the road work for everyone. If I had a set of dive flags I was protecting, I would position my vessel so that the oncoming vessel approached from my port side and take all engines out of gear, making me the stand on vessel in 2 ways. The oncoming vessel must maneuver to avoid you, and since all captains must take action to avoid a collision, I don't see how FFWCC can ticket the stand-on vessel. YMMV.