Scuba BSA

[Aquatic Eagle]

I am the Aquatics Director for my local Boy Scout camp and also a NAUI instructor. When I attended Camp School, I was told that Scuba BSA wasn't going to be allowed as a camp activity. I was also told that Scuba BSA couldn't be taught to a scout unit if the instructor is a registered member of that same unit.

I have heard of people starting Scuba BSA at their summer camps. What is the actual rule on this and how have you gone about doing so?

Does it make any sense to not allow an instructor to teach Scuba BSA to their own unit? Doesn't this seem like a waste of a valuable resource to anyone else?

 

[mike_s]

I haven't heard this.... sounds stupid to me.

I'd check with the national scout office to see what the rules really are.
I've seen many local council office represenatives simiply "lie" because they
didn't want to do something.

They are more worried about raising more money than providing a quality
program for the youth.

 

[DennisW]

I haven't heard this.... sounds stupid to me.

I'd check with the national scout office to see what the rules really are.
I've seen many local council office represenatives simiply "lie" because they
didn't want to do something.

They are more worried about raising more money than providing a quality
program for the youth.

How true. Been there. Not with SCUBA, but other things.

 

[mike_s]

How true. Been there. Not with SCUBA, but other things.

The council exec in Atlanta resigned because they were inflating the 'membership and money' numbers... I think some group had a lawsuit against them for it.


The council exec in Birmingham is apparantly doing the same thing.
The FBI is investigating them for the same thing. They apparantly
were chartering "ghost troops" that never existed and making up
names of kids that were in the troops.

The reason the FBI is involved is because the Birmingham council
used the membership numbers to solicate funds from the United
Way based how many kids they were 'helping'. They are
saying the use of inflated membership to raise funds could
have pending fraud charges.

Several other councils also have been caught, including Dallas.

Do a google search for FBI and Boy Scouts and you'll find all kinds
of news stories on it.

 

[DennisW]

Boy Scouts at the local level is pretty good. The people are normally very dedicated and interested in providing the program to the scouts, whether they are Cub Scouts, Boy Scouts, Venture Crews, or Explorer Posts. I was fairly impressed with the Central Florida Council when I was a Scout Master and then Organizational Charter Representative (an active one, which is unusual). National is too interested in money to care about providing the program. It's unfortunate. I got into it with them when they stopped selling scout emblems to trophy shops. That meant you had to buy plaques and other award items from the National office at 3 to 4 times going rate. I'm still upset about that.

 

[Aquatic Eagle]

I haven't heard this.... sounds stupid to me.

I'd check with the national scout office to see what the rules really are.
I've seen many local council office represenatives simiply "lie" because they
didn't want to do something.

They are more worried about raising more money than providing a quality
program for the youth.

Nevermind. I looked on the national web site and found the PDF faq on Scuba BSA. It says that Scuba BSA can be used in summer camp programs as long as the person teaching it is a certified instructor through NAUI, PADI, or SSI and has liability insurance. It says that direct employment of instructors is not recommended. I'm not sure why though if each instructor has their own insurance. Anyway, sorry to cause the confusion.

 

[Diver Lori]

Nevermind. I looked on the national web site and found the PDF faq on Scuba BSA. It says that Scuba BSA can be used in summer camp programs as long as the person teaching it is a certified instructor through NAUI, PADI, or SSI and has liability insurance. It says that direct employment of instructors is not recommended. I'm not sure why though if each instructor has their own insurance. Anyway, sorry to cause the confusion.

Direct employment would, in my opinion, be avoided for a couple reasons.....

1. Direct employment may mean the instructor has their insurance paid by the BSA.

2. If the BSA pays for the insurance, the insurance is now diluted.

 

[Aquatic Eagle]

Direct employment would, in my opinion, be avoided for a couple reasons.....

1. Direct employment may mean the instructor has their insurance paid by the BSA.

2. If the BSA pays for the insurance, the insurance is now diluted.

Even if the insurance is paid by the BSA, the instructor still carries the liability. Norwegian Cruise Line pays for my insurance but it's still my liability. I would think that the only liability that the BSA would carry would be the same as any employee teaching swimming or hiking. I may be wrong with that but I'm pretty sure that with my own personal liability insurance, that should take a lot off of the BSA. Any lawyers out there familiar with this stuff?

 

[IRONMANO12]

I work full time for the scouts and next summer my camp will have the BSA scuba program … and yes like one other said them telling you a camp school that you cant run this programs just sounds like someone forgot it was all for the boys and all they now have in their mind is the money and # part… if you have been , work , or anything with the scouting program for any bit of time you will know that most of the good scout program of the good days have been all but killed off by a executive or director for one or both of two reason money and/or #... but any ways to get off my box and get back to scuba and to help you out call you LCO or the one your camps base at and as then to order you the bsa scuba the sku# is 19-515 it’s a free lil book has all the requirements witch you I think can pull from meritbadge.com… but the book gives most all the info you need and give you a good start … also will add 2 more things I have been to camp school and certified two time in def. fields. I have been told a lot of things that are not true but for OBS you have to use their rule and do it their way … also I know you said that you’re a NAUI instructor and this may or may not help you but with are program we are time planning to run it hand in hand with the PADI scuba diver witch are vary close to the bsa requirements.. it will get them a pic card and it does not take up all day so we can get them doing other things in camp…
Well if I can help you out with this any more let me know
Koder

 

[laurelgsc]

It's very simple. Organizations like to transfer the liability. Think of it this way. If you directly employ the SCUBA instructor, have your own equipment, etc... It's your liability no matter if the individual instructor has insurance. If you hire a LDS to do your instruction, it's more of their liability. Most LDS's have lots of insurance as well. Lawyers go after deep pockets. Not for profit organizations tend to have lots of insurance.