Scubapro Mk-5 and 109 service kits.

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Luis H

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Well, VDH is thinking about expanding a bit from double hose to some classic/ vintage single hose regulators.

Bryan at VintageDoubleHose.com is thinking about offering service kits for some Scubapro regulators. He has been asking me for information on what to offer (and in turn I have asked some of the “usual suspects&#8221:wink:.

He is planning on offering kits with all the O-rings (including the hard to find little metric O-ring for the BA poppet). The kits will also have seats, the first stage filter, and the star filter retainer.


I think that there should be plenty of interest, what do you guys think?

Any suggestions?
 
I am all for it, if it can be done at a reasonable cost. MK5/R109 is a nice reg well worth supporting in the 21st century. To me using concave seats in MK5 is nice, if one can get them. Upgrading the R109 to unbalanced G200 poppet or balanced G250 is a must since the original poppet set is hard to replace (unless Brian figures out some reproduction scheme).

P.S. Brian is quite a reliable fellow. Thanks to his service kits and reproduction parts my DA AquaMaster is working like new.

P.S.S. Love the Phoenix nozzle, Luis. Well done!
 
The market for the modern DIY diver is a bit different than the vintage market and the concave seat may be seen as being desireable. It does increase the flow rate slightly, but more importantly the three different heights allow a broader range of IP adjustment and allow the IP to be adjusted downward - something that is important with older Mk 10s that may have springs that have gotten stiffer with age.

I used Nitrile o-rings for years in deco applications and they are fine for nitrox use, despite popular opinion, but EPDM may sell better with the modern diver due the craze for Viton or EPDM for nitrox applications. Please avoid Viton as it wears very badly in dynamic applications. There were thrid party viton kits available for the Mk 5 and MK 10 a decade or so ago and they were problematic in the Mk 10, especially the dynamic o-rings.

A Mk 5 kit will cover the Mk 1, Mk 5, Mk 6, the breathing side of the Mk 7 and the Mk 8. A Mk 10 kit will cover the Mk 9 and Mk 10. I use Mk 5s, 8s, 9s and 10s, for stage and deco bottles and when I put a kit together, I just add the larger Mk 5 piston head o-ring and the smaller swivel cap o-ring to the kit so it can do double duty.

It simplies the logistics for the cost of 2 additional o-rings and Bryan might want to do the same.

----

Scubapro has changed poppets several times in both the 109 and 156. The latest S-wing poppet works fine with the A148 rivet style seat from Trident. Even though the seat is slightly thicker than the SP verison, the orifice adjustment, spring pressure and lever height all work out fine and the regs breathe great with that seat. I think the dealer cost on them is $1.60 but is no doubt cheaper in bulk.

The latest 109 Duro poppet uses a standard flat rubber seat so that is a non issue as long as the user has the latest poppet.

For users with the older or original poppets for the 109 and 156 with the molded on seat, they will either have to get newer poppets through Scubapro, or Bryan will have to make a new version of the old poppets or reverse engineer poppets similar to the modern ones (check out what Aqualung did with the poppet on the Legend - it looks almost identical to the old metal and plastic Scubpro balanced adjustabe poppet but done in one piece of black plastic.) In any case, he will encounter customers with both adjustable and balanced adjustable second stages and poppets of both old and new styles in each.

The 108 second stage is easy - a flat generic seat and o-rings for the orifice, inlet swivel and LP hose.

What I would love to see are parts for the now unsupported Air 1 as it is a superbly performing reg with both left and right inlet options. They use D400 service kits which are still available, but the critical parts are the diaphragm and the metal clip that secures the diaphragm.
 
I think it is a great idea. And for about $0.10 worth of extra o-rings, it can cover both the Mk5 and the M10 families. I assume he is looking at some compatible after-market HP seat so it will probably be one seat rather than the 3 of varying heights as in the OEM kits. That is fine but he may want to throw in (or make available) washers to provide some IP adjustment. Heck, with flat seats providing little difference in performance and twice the mileage, that might be desirable to the customer.

My only concern is that I believe many DIYers eventually get to the point where they are more interested in individual components (seats, filters, o-rings) rather than kits but that is a transition he could make if and when it is worthwhile.
 
Like I wrote in the Vintage section: It'd be great to have a place to buy bits. I'm with awap, that it would be nice to be able to buy seats, springs, shims and similar "hard" pieces without having to pay for the whole kit.

Henrik
 
Same here:
  • Great: Service Kits
  • Greater: "Unified Service Kits" for both the MK5 & the MK10
  • Greatest: "Unified Sevice Kits" and the separate availability of critical parts such as seats, shims, filters, etc.
  • Ultimately, in case of strong demand (1000+/day), an "o-ring kit" plus a "part kit" to make a "service kit" and simplify inventory management.:D
 
Thanks for the comments. I will send a link to both of these threads to Bryan to read.

Thanks for all the information DA Aquamaster. I am glad to see that our observations are similar.


The combined MK-5 and Mk-10 kit sounds like a good idea. I will pass that along.


I like the individual parts idea also, but he may need to introduce the kits first. IMHO, he is investing some money up front and need to recover enough to keep the business worth while.

He used to only offer service kits for double hose and now you can buy any individual part. I think a lot is going to depend on how much demand he gets.


I believe that Bryan is planning of using (or at least starting of with) the HP seat from Trident PN A242. Does anyone have any experience with it? I should be getting some soon to test out, but have not seen one yet.

A flat seat is always a possibility. Again it is all one step at a time.
 
awap tested the A242 here and found them to be sub-standard .
If you want to do a re-run of the accelerated test, I can send you a couple.
 
awap tested the A242 here and found them to be sub-standard .
If you want to do a re-run of the accelerated test, I can send you a couple.

Just to be clear, I have been using one of those seats for over a year now with no problem. The problems I reported were reported to me by Divesports who also tested those seats. I'm sorry that I was not clearer on that.
 
The o-rings aren't/won't be too tough to source. It looks like awap's verified that the Triden 1st stage seat is a viable option. It's the 2nd stage poppets that will take some effort.

Maybe Brian could work with an SP shop to source the 2 poppets as a part of the kits.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/peregrine/

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